[James Boon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/28282536

A composite course made up of holes from no.1 and no.2 apparently. I've played no. 2 and 3 but not 1? Anyone care to speculate on a composite routing? 

So no Scottish Open for The Renaissance Club and Castle Stuart will host again in 2016.

Cheers,

James

[Tom_Doak]

Alas, The Renaissance's bid for the Scottish Open failed when the First Minister of Scotland decided to get involved and promote that the tournament was being moved around the country to help support the local economies.  He couldn't be seen associating himself with a private course owned by Americans, so, out with Renaissance, in with Gullane.  I wonder if Castle Stuart will eventually fall victim to the same issue? 

It should be a great event at Gullane, though it's sad to see that they once again feel they have to #&@* with the golf course in order to host the professionals.  I guess, in that sense, it's just as well they didn't get their hands on my course.

[Ryan Coles]

Are Gullane and Renaissance Club not part of essentially the same area? If so, supporting a different local economy can't be the reason.

If it's bias against American owners/elitism, they wouldn't have chosen Castle Stuart already.

Could it be that they felt Gullane was the best golfing option in that area and based their decision on golfing reasons?

[Ronald Montesano]

it's sad to see that they once again feel they have to #&@* with the golf course in order to host the professionals.

I'd rather they *@&# (oops, I got that backward) in this manner, as opposed to butchering the holes while preserving the integrity of the routing. Hopefully no butchering takes place.

[Tom_Doak]

Are Gullane and Renaissance Club not part of essentially the same area? If so, supporting a different local economy can't be the reason.

If it's bias against American owners/elitism, they wouldn't have chosen Castle Stuart already.

Could it be that they felt Gullane was the best golfing option in that area and based their decision on golfing reasons?

It could be.  But there have been years of politicking around this decision, by all sides, so you could hardly call it politics-free.

I guess the same gentleman could also have given Mr. Trump his go-ahead because he thought the golfing value of the property was too good to go to waste.

[Tom_Doak]

it's sad to see that they once again feel they have to #&@* with the golf course in order to host the professionals.

I'd rather they *@&# (oops, I got that backward) in this manner, as opposed to butchering the holes while preserving the integrity of the routing. Hopefully no butchering takes place.

True enough.  Let's keep our fingers crossed that they don't add 20 bunkers.

[cary lichtenstein]

I loved Gullane

[David_Tepper]

Article shows proposed routing for Gullane "championship" course:

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/7/13/gullane-castle-stuart-land-next-two-scottish-opens.html

[Steve Salmen]

Can someone who has played Gullane recently please confirm the following for me?  The 17th holes on courses 1 and 2 are severely downhill par 4s that are parallel to each other.  Is it my imagination or is the 18th tee for the tournament being set in the middle of the hill? 

[Niall C]

Alas, The Renaissance's bid for the Scottish Open failed when the First Minister of Scotland decided to get involved and promote that the tournament was being moved around the country to help support the local economies.  He couldn't be seen associating himself with a private course owned by Americans, so, out with Renaissance, in with Gullane.  I wonder if Castle Stuart will eventually fall victim to the same issue? 

It should be a great event at Gullane, though it's sad to see that they once again feel they have to #&@* with the golf course in order to host the professionals.  I guess, in that sense, it's just as well they didn't get their hands on my course.

Tom

Do you know that for a fact ?

I'm no great supporter of Wee Eck even though I helped vote him in but I think you might be overstating both his involvement and the reasoning. If this was an anti-American decision then why go back to Castle Stuart ? Why would he have played with Mickelson in the pro-am at Balgownie ? Rather than being anti-US, Salmond has been trying to court US politicians ahead of the referendum vote.

I would suggest however that the exclusiveness of Renaissance would be against Salmonds socialist principles but as I said earlier, I think the choice has more to do with Martin Gilbert than Alex Salmond.

Niall

[Niall C]

Re the re-routing, I assume this is temporary and imagine that the use of the first for "infrastructure" presumably means hospitality tents in which case the hole will come back into play afterwards.

Niall

[Matthew Essig]

Can someone who has played Gullane recently please confirm the following for me?  The 17th holes on courses 1 and 2 are severely downhill par 4s that are parallel to each other.  Is it my imagination or is the 18th tee for the tournament being set in the middle of the hill? 

Just played Gullane #1 today! Yes, both are severely downhill. The new 18th tee box will be built into the hill somewhere. The carry from that tee box will be quite a long way, although it is downhill and typically downwind.

[Matthew Essig]

A little sad to see the 4th on Gullane #1 get cut. The three par 3's in the "championship" routing are all about 190 yards. The 4th is an interesting and challenging short 3. Oh well.

[Andrew Moss]

Tom, I'm afraid Salmond will make the decisions in his own/parties best interest in my humble opinion. Speaking as an Englishman with very little time for the man, I personally believe he holds way too much power or certainly seems too.

In fairness, in terms of the region, I would rather play Muirfield or North Berwick than Gullane 1. I can't comment on Renaissance, having not played or had the opportunity to play the course.

I agree with Matthew, shame about 4 and personally I love/hate 17 but  I can see why it's not forming part of the composite.

On a personal note 17 cost me a gross 71, hence my hate toward it spoiling my caddyshack round haha

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The Rennaisance Club course is without a doubt superior in every way to any composite that Gulland can come up with.
I understand the non use of a ultra private club to not stage the event, but lets not confuse that the calibre of the coursesre equal.
The routing of the composite will not flow as nicely as the Rennaisance, not as much room for spectators lining the fairways, but it will be a good test for the players.
Both are good courses, the Rennaisnace club just has a better tournament feel about it, resembles a good tournament course much more.

[Andrew Moss]

Yes Michael I'm sure your right, I just can't comment having not played it, but I can imagine the exclusivity of it probably played a part, rightly or wrongly.

I'm not a fan of composite courses, Gullane 1 is a test in itself, but that includes the holes that we seem to have lost!!! 17 is a perfect example, I always walk onto the tee and think this is easy!! I've never walked off with better than a 5.

[James Boon]

Andrew,

If the 17th is like that, then perhaps they should have found a way to incorporate it? 

As soon as a course needs to go to a composite routing rather than its normal run of holes, it always seems a real shame to me. Mainly as visitors wont be able to play it the way that the pros have played the course which is one of the charms of then visiting a course which has hosted the pros. Though I understand its required at times.

As I said, I've not played no. 1 at Gullane but the composite routing posted on Geoff Shackleford's site raises a few things for me:
- The need to walk past an existing hole on the course to get to the next (skipping the par 3 4th)
- The walk from 17 to 18 seems an awful long way to me?

Perhaps the worst thing about The Renaissance Club not getting the Scottish Open, is that they've narrowed it down, taking away some of the strategic interest off the tee, and all for nothing? Lets hope they get it back to how Tom Doak wanted it nice and sharpish!

Cheers,

James

[Andrew Moss]

James,

I think 17 would just be too easy for the pros, that's the only reason I can figure, although looking at the card it's still 390 off the back pots, but all severely downhill generally wind assisted. If it helps, think 16 at Hollinwell but steeper, dead straight and no trouble either side. Just the bunker as protection.
It's a shame, I think it's classic risk reward and I always fail, miserably!!!!

I completely agree re composites, you just miss too much out and they'll be some strange walks!!!

[Matthew Essig]

I had the pleasure of playing Gullane #2 after #1 yesterday. As I was coming down 17, I decided to walk out into the fescue and take a picture of approximately where the new tee box will be (no the white post does not designate where it will be. It is used as a depth perception guide for mishit drives on #1's 17). The spot in the hill is not as steep as the rest so building a terrace for the tee won't be too hard; however it could be closer to #1's 17th fairway/the white post than where I was standing.



Geoff's picture has the hole listed as 436 yards. Comparing that to the yardage book, that is an addition of about 50 yards. That places the bunkers at 280 and 330, meaning that there could be some interesting strategic options with the downhill and downwind tee shots.



To answer the question of if it is a long walk..... It is out of character with almost every other green to tee transition because most tees are right next to the previous green; however, the walk ISN'T LONG..... Well at least it doesn't FEEL that long. It is quite a bit downhill and the prevailing wind is at your back so you stroll down the hill fairly quickly. It isn't quick, but it is fast (if that makes sense).
***Honestly, the walk past the par 3 4th on #1 will probably feel more awkward.

If you are in the lead by one..... Then it is a long walk 

Edit: Geoff's picture of where 17 on the composite ends is completely wrong, fooling you about the length of the walk. The composite 15 tee is not as far back as he says; it currently says it is in the fairway of composite 17. The line on composite 17 should be extended up 150ish yards.  The green to tee walk is probably only 200-250 yards. As I said above, the walk won't be too bad.

[Niall C]

Andrew

As soon as you sacrifice the first hole for the inevitable tented village etc you're into a composite course. I'm sure the probably had several options but assume taking 3 out and adding 3 in might have been the best alternative. Can't really see how you can fault the club or organisers for making a sensible decision that allows the vent to be held there. And as fine a course as Renaissance is, I don't see how it is better in every way than Gullane for holding a championship as Michael suggests. Both very fine courses/facilities that no doubt could/will work well.

Niall

[Jaeger Kovich]

The best reason I can think of to use Gullane over TRCAA is parking. People staying Gullane can walk, and the rest can use the city and various fields/other golf holes in the flats bellow the hill

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Niall,
I think I am just taken away by the whole ambiance thing of the Rennaisance Club, from the drive up to the club and everything involved with the place, it just oozes classs and something I think the players would appreciate so much more than playing a hodge podge composite.
The set up we ahd at the Cup was I agree unlike what perhaps Tom intended but those fescues were gorgeous to look , the colour combinations just spellbinding, somethimng I know Gullane will also have, but it just begged for the Scottish Open, perhaps in  FEW YEARS TIME.

Dont get me wrong, I think Gulane is a terrific course and the town will be buzzing it will be a great event.

[Steve Okula]

I haven't seen Gullane or the RC, but I have worked with the European Tour, and the architectural merit of the golf course is not their first concern.

They are concerned more with access and infrastructure. There are a myriad of players and sponsors demands.

Which site is more accessible with  good, wide roads for thousands of vehicles and semi tractor trailers? (that's articulated lorries). There will be enormous amounts of materials to set up like tents, television production facilities, grandstands and towers.  There will be furniture and caterers as well.

Which site is more convenient to hotels, airports, and rail links? Which has better access to communications, especially cell phone and internet service?

Which site has more available buildings on site to house press, players' lounge, VIP lounge, caddies lounge, and so forth? The more buildings with usable space on site, the less the organizers need to pay for temporary structures.

Which has the electrical grid to power all this stuff?

Which club is more cooperative to close for the maximum amount of time prior to the event to prepare the course to the fullest?

Finally, which course provides the best viewing for spectators?

There's more behind the scenes of a Tour event than mowing grass and raking bunkers, or even #&@*ing with the course design.

[Thomas Dai]

Well posted Steve, and very pertinent when discussions arise herein about the possibility of adding course 'x' or course 'y' to the rota of courses that already host The Open.
atb

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I haven't seen Gullane or the RC, but I have worked with the European Tour, and the architectural merit of the golf course is not their first concern.

They are concerned more with access and infrastructure. There are a myriad of players and sponsors demands.

Which site is more accessible with  good, wide roads for thousands of vehicles and semi tractor trailers? (that's articulated lorries). There will be enormous amounts of materials to set up like tents, television production facilities, grandstands and towers.  There will be furniture and caterers as well.probably the same for both, but RC has more actual on sight accomodation

Which site is more convenient to hotels, airports, and rail links? Which has better access to communications, especially cell phone and internet service In this case identical for both courses

Which site has more available buildings on site to house press, players' lounge, VIP lounge, caddies lounge, and so forth? The more buildings with usable space on site, the less the organizers need to pay for temporary structures.as siad above RC

Which has the electrical grid to power all this stuff? SAME FOR BOTH VENUES

Which club is more cooperative to close for the maximum amount of time prior to the event to prepare the course to the fullest? i THINK BOTH ABOUT EQUAL ON THIS ONE

Finally, which course provides the best viewing for spectators? Ithink RC IS MORE SPECTATOR FRIENDLY

There's more behind the scenes of a Tour event than mowing grass and raking bunkers, or even #&@*ing with the course design.

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