Incursion of bermuda into rough - SE Pennsylvania

[Dan Herrmann]

It now seems that we in SE Pennsylvania (Philly) are going to have to learn how to play out of bermuda rough.  I spoke with my head greenkeeper who confirmed that bermuda has migrated north.

It's amazing because the first bermuda I saw up here was a small patch at Rolling Green back in the early 2000's.  But now it seems that it's everywhere and spreading.    And if this winter's weather didn't kill it off, nothing will.

So - assuming that bermuda is spreading up here (and likely in other places), what affect will it have on existing course architecture?

Personally, I find the stuff a PITA to play from around the green, and I propose that courses will become more difficult over the years because of this new (to the NE USA) grass.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Dan we are starting an agressive spraying and pulling program this week. I will keep you posted.
Ed

[JMEvensky]

It now seems that we in SE Pennsylvania (Philly) are going to have to learn how to play out of bermuda rough.  I spoke with my head greenkeeper who confirmed that bermuda has migrated north.

It's amazing because the first bermuda I saw up here was a small patch at Rolling Green back in the early 2000's.  But now it seems that it's everywhere and spreading.    And if this winter's weather didn't kill it off, nothing will.

So - assuming that bermuda is spreading up here (and likely in other places), what affect will it have on existing course architecture?

Personally, I find the stuff a PITA to play from around the green, and I propose that courses will become more difficult over the years because of this new (to the NE USA) grass.

Those of us who grew up playing Bermuda know you never get used to it--PITA ain't the half of it. I pity you guys.

Down here,it actually grows through the sidewalks.

[Joe Hancock]

A couple years ago, I was walking up to the green on the 14th at Crystal Downs. I had my head down, likely because it wasn't during my shot, and saw a turf type that wasn't typical of Northern Michigan. I pulled some up, expressed to the group that I thought it was common bermudagrass, and then gave the sample to Mike Morris, the super there. He confirmed it....common bermudagrass at Crystal Downs. I've seen it in other locales in Michigan....near New Buffalo, also in Sparta at the local soccer field, etc. It's a hardy plant for sure.

Joe

[Mike Sweeney]

A couple years ago, I was walking up to the green on the 14th at Crystal Downs. I had my head down, likely because it wasn't during my shot, and saw a turf type that wasn't typical of Northern Michigan. I pulled some up, expressed to the group that I thought it was common bermudagrass, and then gave the sample to Mike Morris, the super there. He confirmed it....common bermudagrass at Crystal Downs. I've seen it in other locales in Michigan....near New Buffalo, also in Sparta at the local soccer field, etc. It's a hardy plant for sure.

Joe

I have absolutely no doubt that JC Jones has brought Bermuda strains to the Northern Midwest:


Newman ! :

[Don Mahaffey]

A couple years ago, I was walking up to the green on the 14th at Crystal Downs. I had my head down, likely because it wasn't during my shot, and saw a turf type that wasn't typical of Northern Michigan. I pulled some up, expressed to the group that I thought it was common bermudagrass, and then gave the sample to Mike Morris, the super there. He confirmed it....common bermudagrass at Crystal Downs. I've seen it in other locales in Michigan....near New Buffalo, also in Sparta at the local soccer field, etc. It's a hardy plant for sure.

Joe

Some guy from TX was up there a couple of year ago walking the course. The seed probably fell off his shoe

[Anthony_Nysse]

It now seems that we in SE Pennsylvania (Philly) are going to have to learn how to play out of bermuda rough.  I spoke with my head greenkeeper who confirmed that bermuda has migrated north.

It's amazing because the first bermuda I saw up here was a small patch at Rolling Green back in the early 2000's.  But now it seems that it's everywhere and spreading.    And if this winter's weather didn't kill it off, nothing will.

So - assuming that bermuda is spreading up here (and likely in other places), what affect will it have on existing course architecture?

Personally, I find the stuff a PITA to play from around the green, and I propose that courses will become more difficult over the years because of this new (to the NE USA) grass.

Any chance he's tried spraying Pylex? It's a herbicide that is safe on Cool season turf, but eradicates Bermudagass. Lots of guys in the mid atlantic using it with impressive results.

[Adam Warren]

May have come in on a southerners golf shoes.  Have heard of some places making you dip your shoes in bleach or something before going out to play for fear of tracking in some bermuda.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Anthony is Pylex the chemical that turns it white?  We tried it last year as a test and it worked well.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Anthony is Pylex the chemical that turns it white?  We tried it last year as a test and it worked well.

Mr. Brzezowski,
  This is correct. I do not know the price or rates of the product, bc we are all bermudagrass at Pine Tree, but those that have/can use it have seen great results. I even know guys spraying it on the edges of greens to stop bermudagrass encroachment into bent greens.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Mr. Brzezowski, i was  looking for my dad. Ed is fine please.

We used it last year as a test on some of our heavily infested areas and it worked well. If I recall the Bermuda went white overnight. So the test was good and now we are going all in. I hope it works.
Ed

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mr. Brzezowski, i was  looking for my dad. Ed is fine please.

We used it last year as a test on some of our heavily infested areas and it worked well. If I recall the Bermuda went white overnight. So the test was good and now we are going all in. I hope it works.
Ed

Ed,
  That's correct. The warmer the air temp, the quicker it works. Obviously, with bermuda, it has to be warmer and plant active. White over night, then a slow enough dead to allow existing turf or seed to fill in gaps and not leave a course with voids everywhere. Looks like a good product, especially for those courses in the transition zone. Keep us posted

[Jason Walker]

Mr. Brzezowski, i was  looking for my dad. Ed is fine please.

We used it last year as a test on some of our heavily infested areas and it worked well. If I recall the Bermuda went white overnight. So the test was good and now we are going all in. I hope it works.
Ed

Ed,
  That's correct. The warmer the air temp, the quicker it works. Obviously, with bermuda, it has to be warmer and plant active. White over night, then a slow enough dead to allow existing turf or seed to fill in gaps and not leave a course with voids everywhere. Looks like a good product, especially for those courses in the transition zone. Keep us posted

We've been fighting bermuda at Tavistock in NJ for a while now.  In fact Tony was kind enough a couple of years ago to give us some suggested treatments.  Some worked OK, others not so much.  We tested Pylex in a several areas last year including our bluegrass and fescue roughs as well as several areas of bentgrass fairway.  The fairway treatments have actually faired the best.  It definitely injured the bentgrass, but after several weeks the bentgrass recovered nicely and the bermuda was gone--and has not returned this year.  The roughs appeared to have the same success but the bermuda has come roaring back in several areas this summer.  Sure looks to be a multi-season type of approach to have meaningful success in heavily infested areas.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mr. Brzezowski, i was  looking for my dad. Ed is fine please.

We used it last year as a test on some of our heavily infested areas and it worked well. If I recall the Bermuda went white overnight. So the test was good and now we are going all in. I hope it works.
Ed

Ed,
  That's correct. The warmer the air temp, the quicker it works. Obviously, with bermuda, it has to be warmer and plant active. White over night, then a slow enough dead to allow existing turf or seed to fill in gaps and not leave a course with voids everywhere. Looks like a good product, especially for those courses in the transition zone. Keep us posted

We've been fighting bermuda at Tavistock in NJ for a while now.  In fact Tony was kind enough a couple of years ago to give us some suggested treatments.  Some worked OK, others not so much.  We tested Pylex in a several areas last year including our bluegrass and fescue roughs as well as several areas of bentgrass fairway.  The fairway treatments have actually faired the best.  It definitely injured the bentgrass, but after several weeks the bentgrass recovered nicely and the bermuda was gone--and has not returned this year.  The roughs appeared to have the same success but the bermuda has come roaring back in several areas this summer.  Sure looks to be a multi-season type of approach to have meaningful success in heavily infested areas.

This type of information goes to show not every product is bulletproof. Soils, maturity of turf, nutrition, temperature and stress all play a roll. Some products work great at full rates, one app. Same product may work better with split apps and have a slower effect. We've experienced that with a certain pre-emergent. Also when we sprayed out fwys and regrassed 2 years ago. Our program showed nearly 100% death after one app. Some guys saw grow back after the 2nd and 3rd app. A certain herbicide that was labeled safe on trees caused many, many to die and thousands of lawsuits over the last few years.
  It shows the importance of testing and timing and how 1oz of product difference can greatly effect the outcome.