[Josh Stevens]

Hm perhaps, but then as someone pointed out, there really isn't the depth to be tossing up 100 Australian courses on this forum - below 20 it sort of gets a little provincial.  The whole country only has as many golf courses as Florida. 

[Terry Thornton]

As someone who has been playing NSWGC since I was 14 and have as many non-architectural and sentimental fondnesses as it's possible to have for the place, I don't see an argument you can make for it being top three in the country.

It very well may no longer be the best golf course in Sydney.

I was planning on playing there Friday. Where should i be going instead?

[Scott Warren]

I doubt you're going there simply because it may be the best course in town.

[Josh Stevens]

As someone who has been playing NSWGC since I was 14 and have as many non-architectural and sentimental fondnesses as it's possible to have for the place, I don't see an argument you can make for it being top three in the country.

It very well may no longer be the best golf course in Sydney.

I was planning on playing there Friday. Where should i be going instead?

Melbourne

[Colin Macqueen]

Josh,

"Hm perhaps, but then as someone pointed out, there really isn't the depth to be tossing up 100 Australian courses on this forum - below 20 it sort of gets a little provincial.  The whole country only has as many golf courses as Florida."

What are you talking about?  The majority of the courses are in the major cities of Australia or within an 1-2 hours travel. Is that provincial?

Which reply # was this pointed out in?

Provincial?? Brisbane has a population of just over 2 million…provincial?

Provincial? Perth has a population of just under 1.7 million … provincial?

St. Michael's provincial? It is within 20 km. of the Sydney Post Office in the centre of a metropolis of 6.5 million people!

I don't understand what you mean.

Florida may have as many courses as Australia but I would put a pound to a penny that far many more of the course in Australia would give you much more interesting golf game than sticky puddings in Florida! Just my opinion as I have never been to or played golf in Florida but not to worry that eventuality is not in this life's plan!

Cheers Colin

[Mark Chaplin]

I agree with Scott's assessment of NSW where it is good it is very good and where it's average it's just that. For me the biggest disappointment is 6, it must be the worst hole v greatest location on the planet.

The club however opens doors and there's only one other in Sydney that does that.

[Jim McCann]

Scott

Casting Josh's inference of rudeness to the one side, I’m afraid the catch-all clause of “commercial confidentially” prevents
me from divulging specific details of what might appear on the periphery to be a somewhat non transparent ranking process.  

To the untrained eye, it may seem that Mr Baxter randomly removes slips of paper with golf course names written on them
from a rather elegant top hat, but - to those in the Top 100 Team who know him a little bit better - there’s more than a modicum
of method in the old buffer’s madness as he collates the figures for the various charts every two years…  

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The last magazine ranking I did - GA 2012 - I had RMW,Barnbougle Dunes,Lost Farm and Kingston Heath as my top 4.

To quote Mr Clayton.
Having followed his career since watching him golf balls next to Noel Ratcliffe one year at the Belfry, probably around 1977, I have learned to value his opinions on golf course archirecture as shown by the value and quality of his work and the way he is viewed by his peers.
So that top 4 is good enough for me to plan my trip around when that happens.

Promise it is getting closer, just waiting for the two new projects by Messrs Doak and DevRies tio be completed.

[Mike_Clayton]

Michael,

The longer you wait the better it will get in Australia. King Island is going to be brilliant - top 3 the day it opens - and hopefully Mat Goggin's Seven Mile Beach project in Hobart is finished in a couple of years. The local council approved permits this week.

It couldn't have been 1977 - maybe '83 It was the first year I played The Belfry.

[JMEvensky]

It couldn't have been 1977 - maybe '83 It was the first year I played The Belfry.

Be easy on M W-P's memory--sometimes he types while sharing laughing gas with his patients.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Really 83...wow, then perhaps it wasnt Noel after all?

Does that mean I am younger than I thought ?

[Scott Warren]

I’m afraid the catch-all clause of “commercial confidentially” prevents me from divulging specific details of what might appear on the periphery to be a somewhat non transparent ranking process.

This raises more questions than it answers.

Are Golf Australia Mag and Golf Digest rankings utilised in your website's rankings calculations?

[Mark Pavy]

Scott

Whilst it saddens me to hear your report of NSW, it does raise a valid issue.

How relevant and reliable are our memories when it comes to ranking courses?

In the case of my opinion on NSW, I'm basing my opinion on a 20 year old memory. I'm also making claims that several courses could be positioned higher, when in reality, there are a handful of courses in the top 50, relative to the statement, that I've never even seen. The same could be said for Mike's opinions on Port Fairy...should be top 30, but has never seen The Cut and Joondalup is a 25 year old memory. How can any Top 100 list be taken seriously when there are such gaping holes in the methodology?

Four years ago I showed some video footage to three friends, two tour pros and a single figure marker. The video was of a few golf holes filmed from the players perspective in 3D with some high end 4k cinema cameras. The theory was that a golfers performance could be improved by viewing the course in 3D, in a similar fashion to how F1 drivers prepare by using 3D simulators prior to race day. During the discussion that followed, the question was raised, "Could you rank a golf course based upon the imagery?". Most agreed that it could, whilst even the devil's advocate agreed that the 3D imagery would certainly help refresh "course rankers" minds.

I would urge anyone who has an interest in golf course architecture and rankings to at least take a look and judge for yourself. We don't rank the courses, clearly I'm a poor judge!. We provide a valuable tool for those who wish to further their knowledge and "refresh" their memories regarding golf courses.

Out of curiosity- one of the courses featured in 3D on our site doesn't have a review on Jim's website, is never mentioned in any list or rankings (world), but is highly regarded amongst my peers who have seen it in 3D. Many would even argue that it belongs in the World Top 100!!!!.

Judge for yourself, PM your address and I'll send you some 3D Glasses- you can view the 3D on a conventional 2D monitor.

Let the great course debate continue.

[Mike_Clayton]

Michael,

Noel was there in 1983 - he won the B&H in the late 80s from memory and he still plays well on the Senior Tour. He must be 70 by now and still has the same long backswing. It's interesting how some players lose their games completely post 60 and some continue to play really well.

[Matt Day]

From a Perth perspective I would have Kennedy Bay above Joondalup even though I'm a Joondalup member. The Cut is too high, thought Kalgoorlie would be ranked above Mt Lawley and WAGC

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Michael,

Noel was there in 1983 - he won the B&H in the late 80s from memory and he still plays well on the Senior Tour. He must be 70 by now and still has the same long backswing. It's interesting how some players lose their games completely post 60 and some continue to play really well.

A good study should be done.  So many of us baby boomers would like to know why some lost their games, why some don't.
Michael a good book for you, something on your horizon.

[Bill_McBride]

Michael,

Noel was there in 1983 - he won the B&H in the late 80s from memory and he still plays well on the Senior Tour. He must be 70 by now and still has the same long backswing. It's interesting how some players lose their games completely post 60 and some continue to play really well.

At age 72 I have to say it's not nice for you to bring that up!

[Mike_Clayton]

Lynn,

It is interesting. Maurice Bembridge - who played a few Ryder Cups and shot 64 last day of 1974 Masters - was a terrific player but he can't fly it 180 yards with a driver now.  Antonio Garrido also - who with Seve were first continentals to play Ryder Cup.1979
Ratcliffe in contrast has lost very little.

Hale Irwin obviously - in contrast to John Mahaffey who I played with at Muirfield in Senior Open a few years ago.

[Jim McCann]

Scott

Of course those published rankings are taken into consideration - "About us" at the top of the Top 100 homepage explains more.

[Josh Stevens]

Josh,

"Hm perhaps, but then as someone pointed out, there really isn't the depth to be tossing up 100 Australian courses on this forum - below 20 it sort of gets a little provincial.  The whole country only has as many golf courses as Florida."

What are you talking about?  The majority of the courses are in the major cities of Australia or within an 1-2 hours travel. Is that provincial?

Which reply # was this pointed out in?

Provincial?? Brisbane has a population of just over 2 million…provincial?

Provincial? Perth has a population of just under 1.7 million … provincial?

St. Michael's provincial? It is within 20 km. of the Sydney Post Office in the centre of a metropolis of 6.5 million people!

I don't understand what you mean.

Florida may have as many courses as Australia but I would put a pound to a penny that far many more of the course in Australia would give you much more interesting golf game than sticky puddings in Florida! Just my opinion as I have never been to or played golf in Florida but not to worry that eventuality is not in this life's plan!

Cheers Colin

"Provincial" is not used as a term to imply geographical location, but rather significance. Once below about 20, the courses are perfectly fine fr the local audience but increasingly cease to be of national or international significance.

[Sean_A]

Josh,

"Hm perhaps, but then as someone pointed out, there really isn't the depth to be tossing up 100 Australian courses on this forum - below 20 it sort of gets a little provincial.  The whole country only has as many golf courses as Florida."

What are you talking about?  The majority of the courses are in the major cities of Australia or within an 1-2 hours travel. Is that provincial?

Which reply # was this pointed out in?

Provincial?? Brisbane has a population of just over 2 million…provincial?

Provincial? Perth has a population of just under 1.7 million … provincial?

St. Michael's provincial? It is within 20 km. of the Sydney Post Office in the centre of a metropolis of 6.5 million people!

I don't understand what you mean.

Florida may have as many courses as Australia but I would put a pound to a penny that far many more of the course in Australia would give you much more interesting golf game than sticky puddings in Florida! Just my opinion as I have never been to or played golf in Florida but not to worry that eventuality is not in this life's plan!

Cheers Colin

"Provincial" is not used as a term to imply geographical location, but rather significance. Once below about 20, the courses are perfectly fine fr the local audience but increasingly cease to be of national or international significance.

This is my biggest beef with these lists.  A number (such as 100) is chosen regardless of the number of quality courses. I recall a top 100 for Ireland - completely pointless because it in essence recommends 100 courses to play.  Top100 used to do gems before they went to the county ranking etc system.  I much preferred this because it sent an immediate warning to do some homework before taking the effort and expense to play. In other words, the gems weren't ranked and thus weren't given a seal of approval by the website.  Now, practically every course under the sun is "approved" which I think greatly reduces the value of the product. 

Ciao   

[Josh Stevens]

I am just greatly aggrieved my track was bumped out of the top 10.

Might call the secretary and enquire if the fees will go down as a result.  Don't like my chances.

God help us you have a Frenchman on the panel - I grant Entente Cordiale and all that, but really!

But your US guys is called Fergal, all is forgiven, great name.

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