[Jim McCann]

The Top100 website had just published its latest Top 100 chart for Australia.

I'd be interested to find out the reaction of gca members Down Under to the following:

1.   Royal Melbourne (West)......   No change
2.   Kingston Heath.................   No change
3.   Barnbougle Dunes..............   No change
4.   Barnbougle Lost Farm.........   Up 1
5.   New South Wales..................Down 1
6.   National (Moonah)..............   No change
7.   Ellerston...............................Up 1
8.   Royal Melbourne (East).......   Up 1
9.   Royal Adelaide......................Down 2
10.   Victoria.............................   No change
11.   Metropolitan......................   Up 1
12.   Lake Karrinyup....................Up 4
13.   St Andrews Beach................No change
14.   Dunes Golf Links..................Up 9
15.   Newcastle..........................   Up 5
16.   National (Old)......................Up 3
17.   Lakes.................................   Down 6
18.   Woodlands.........................   Down 1
19.   Australian............................Up 5
20.   Barwon Heads....................   Up 1
21.   Peninsula (North).................Down 6
22.   Moonah Links (Legends)......Up 7
23.   Joondalup (Quarry & Dune)   Up 3
24.   Royal Queensland...............   Down 2
25.   Thirteenth Beach (Beach)....   Up 2
26.   Kennedy Bay......................Down 8
27.   Commonwealth...................Down 13
28.   Kooyonga...........................Down 3
29.   Royal Sydney......................Up 1
30.   Cut.....................................Up 2
31.   Brookwater.........................Up 3
32.   Magenta Shores..................Up 4
33.   National (Ocean).................Up 12
34.   Elanora..............................   Up 17
35.   Peninsula (South)...............Down 7
36.   Yarra Yarra........................Down 3
37.   Glenelg..............................Up 9
38.   Hope Island........................Up 2
39.   Grange (West)....................Down 8
40.   Moonah Links (Open)........   Down 1
41.   Huntingdale........................Up 3
42.   Bonville International........   Up 20
43.   Glades...............................Down 1
44.   Spring Valley......................Down 1
45.   Hamilton Island..................Down 4
46.   Portsea..............................Down 9
47.   Vintage..............................Up 10
48.   Pelican Waters....................Up 1
49.   Pacific Harbour...................Up 14
50.   Royal Canberra (Champ.)....Down 12
51.   Heritage (St John)..............Up 2
52.   Sanctuary Cove (Pines).......Up 7
53.   Meadow Springs.................Up 11
54.   Concord.............................Up 6
55.   Sanctuary Lakes.................Up 1
56.   Grange (East).....................Up 14
57.   Lakelands...........................Up 19
58.   Settlers Run........................No change
59.   Western Australia................Up 8
60.   Eynesbury...........................Up 17
61.   Capricorn (Championship)....Up 17
62.   Terrey Hills.........................Down 14
63.   Grand.................................Down 9
64.   Stonecutters Ridge..............New
65.   Murray Downs....................   Up 26
66.   Mount Lawley.....................   Up 2
67.   Coolum..............................Down 20
68.   Healesville..........................   Down 33
69.   Port Fairy............................Down 19
70.   Pacific Dunes.......................Up 12
71.   Avondale.............................Up 12
72.   Thirteenth Beach (Creek).....Down 1
73.   Kalgoorlie...........................   New
74.   Sanctuary Cove (Palms).......Up 26
75.   Links Lady Bay....................Down 3
76.   Amstel (Ranfurlie)...............Down 24
77.   Long Island........................Down 8
78.   St Michael’s.........................Up 12
79.   Vines (Lakes)......................Down 24
80.   Bonnie Doon.......................New
81.   Cottesloe............................Down 16
82.   Cranbourne.........................Down 8
83.   Sorrento.............................Up 11
84.   Tasmania...........................Down 23
85.   Heritage (Henley)...............Down 19
86.   Twin Creeks.......................No change
87.   Indooroopilly (West)...........Up 8
88.   Narooma...........................   Up 11
89.   Riversdale..........................Down 2
90.   Horsham...........................   Down 15
91.   Kooindah Waters................New
92.   Secret Harbour...................Up 4
93.   Royal Perth........................Down 5
94.   Castle Hill...........................New
95.   Paradise Palms...................Up 3
96.   Sands Torquay...................Down 15
97.   Royal Hobart......................Down 17
98.   Sandhurst (Champions)......Down 25
99.   Araluen.............................New
100.   Alice Springs......................Down 11
 

[David_Elvins]

I would be happy to play any of the top 13 every week for the rest of my life.  After that, it gets a bit dicey. 

Now that Grange East is finished it should sit comfortably in the top 40. 

My opinion of courses that are very underated on this list:

Grange West
Pelican Waters
Grange East
Healesville
Port Fairy

Courses that are horrifically over-rated IMO. 

The Dunes
The Australian
Brookwater
Magenta Shores
Bonville
Pacific Harbour
Eyensbury

Other than The Australian and The Dunes, I would not want to play any of these courses more than a few times a year. 

[Mark_F]

Obviously the voting panel was stuffed with National GC members.

[Colin Macqueen]

Jim,
Thanks fro typing that list up. I never have any idea of the pecking order of one club vis-a-vis any other though one understands that the Sandbelt will be well up there in the listings.
My own club comes in at #87 …. on the rise I see!
I was chuckling at your statement Dave,
 "I would be happy to play any of the top 13 every week for the rest of my life.  After that, it gets a bit dicey."
as it just goes to show what an embarrassment of riches we are burdened with here Downunder.

I was surprised to see so many of the traditional Tasmania courses so low on the ladder outgunned by more muscular courses in the rest of the country such as Brookwater and Bonneville. One of the beauties of a golfing holiday in Tasmania is that the courses are so close to one another and to my mind they are not monsters though of course Lost Farm and Barnbougle can be!

Cheers Colin

[Mike_Clayton]

The list shows is how many decent courses have been added since 1980 but as will all most all rankings the order is quite inaccurate.
Port Fairy is miles too low given how good a course it is.
13th Beach below the Dunes? Same architect and same owner. My guess is neither would agree.
Does anyone seriously think Bonville is better than Portsea or Spring Valley or Horsham?

[Mark Pavy]

I'd have The Cut, Brookwater, National (old), NSW and Joondalup all higher.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark

How much higher would you have NSW?

[Mark Pavy]

I'd put it at the top.

Why? Even if I said the top 5 were all equally as great as each other, NSW would be my personal favourite because of a few special memories. I played in the Australian Junior back in the 80s when POM shot an unbelievable 65. In the mid-late 90s I played with Lee Westwood in the Pro-Am prior to the Australian PGA.

[Scott Warren]

I'd put it at the top.

Why? Even if I said the top 5 were all equally as great as each other, NSW would be my personal favourite because of a few special memories. I played in the Australian Junior back in the 80s when POM shot an unbelievable 65. In the mid-late 90s I played with Lee Westwood in the Pro-Am prior to the Australian PGA.

NSW is the best course in the country because you once played it with Lee Westwood?

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark

I assumed the list was rating architectural merit -  and is not influenced by nice things that happen a particular course.
A hole in one at Metropolitan in 1982 paid for my house - but it doesn't change my ranking of the course.

And surely you can't compare the architectural merits of NSW with Royal Melbourne?

[Phil McDade]

(Never been Down Under, just know what I read here )

Are there really 35 courses better than Yarra Yarra?

[Daryl David]

Curious as to what would account for the steep drop in Commonwealth.  Anyone have an idea?

[Greg Gilson]

I promise not to nitpick the numbers as long as no one starts the redundant argument about the inclusion (or not) of Ellerston.

Oh, bugger it. Lets nitpick. As usual, if you cluster the courses into 10's you probably have not much argument except for the order within each cluster.

My biggest "OVERRATED's" would be National Moonah (and I'm a member), Dunes, Moonah Links (Legends) & Royal Sydney

My biggest "UNDERRATED's" would be National (Old), Kennedy Bay & Port Fairy (they are joking...no?)

Like Mark, NSW is a personal "favorite" but I have trouble putting it any higher in a "BEST" rating.

[Scott Warren]

I have been a vocal critic of Jim's website's lists in the past, so I should be equally vocal in saying that by-and-large this is a pretty good list.

Jim's website is widely used as "I'm going to be in X region, where's good to play?" and this list, with a few notable exceptions, fulfills that brief admirably.

Jim - am I right in thinking this list is the work of a couple of people? If so, I reckon that's where the notable outliers may have occurred.

[Mark Pavy]

Mike, no doubt we have different taste in golf courses.

[Matthew Rose]

Curious as to what would account for the steep drop in Commonwealth.  Anyone have an idea?

Was going to ask the same question myself. Had a great sandbelt experience there.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark

We do if you think NSW is a better course  than Royal Melbourne.

[Mark Pavy]

Mike, let's put the NSW vs RM thing aside.

What about the others I suggested?
and would you rate Kingston Heath above Barnbougle Dunes?

[RJ_Daley]

Mark, I hope "Pup" comes into this thread.  I expect he will strongly support your view on NSW.  

One of my regrets on my trip this past winter is that I did not leave enough time to play Port Fairy.  I did get a walkabout with Shane Gurnett and thought it had all the aspects of beautiful setting and a simple yet appealing Irish links small town golf club feel.  And Saltzman's photo essay of Royal Adelaide also made me sorry I didn't have about 3 extra days and have a hit w/James.

I took a look at the 7th beach and Arm End sites.  If those two projects ever get approval and a solid financial plan, it seems Hobart would become a manditory stay over whilst intrepid golfers make their way to the BB/LF quest.  That top 10 may need to include some ties.  Tassie rising.

[Sean Walsh]

RJ,

7mb one step closer now, going by Matt Goggin's twitter feed & Golf Preservefacebook page, Council voted unanimously in favour of the proposal in the last two days.

Not sure about the accommodation project but appears the Golf course isn't far away from progressing.

and this

http://www.golflink.com.au/news/local-news/2014/07/tassie-tops-for-australian-golf-clayton/

[Scott Warren]

As someone who has been playing NSWGC since I was 14 and have as many non-architectural and sentimental fondnesses as it's possible to have for the place, I don't see an argument you can make for it being top three in the country.

The first two holes are lacklustre and appalling, respectively, the drive at the 3rd has become horrifically overgrown, the 6th is the Paris Hilton of golf holes, the waste areas are so choked with pigface and other plants they may as well be ponds in some cases, the drive at 15th is tighter every time I play there, deterring even low-handicappers from hitting driver and the new 18th hole is an insult to the rest of the golf course.

The fact the best holes are so good as to nevertheless get it into that top handful in Australia discussion is a testament to how fantastic those holes are.

It very well may be second 10 in Australia in its current state.

It very well may no longer be the best golf course in Sydney.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark

I have not seen The Cut and have not played Joondalup since 1989. My memory of Joondalup is 23 is close. It's somewhere in the 25-35 group probably.

I would not have National Old as high as 16 - more like ten places lower. Brookwater is about right but there is no way I would play it ahead of Port Fairy - which ought to be in the top 30.Lists get bashed when they have courses 20-40 places from where they should be.

The last magazine ranking I did - GA 2012 - I had RMW,Barnbougle Dunes,Lost Farm and Kingston Heath as my top 4.

[Jim McCann]

Scott

ALL of the Top 100 national listings are compiled from a number of different publications.

Keith Baxter, the editor-in-chief, looks after the number crunching for Australia and he has a number of contacts who report to him
on an ongoing basis.

The observations/opinions of gca members on this forum also play a part in the deliberations before charts are updated biennially...

[Scott Warren]

Jim,

Using Port fairy as an example, what are the inputs are entered that produce that end ranking? And how much editorial discretion exists when the raw numbers produce an outcome that doesn't look right to the eye of the person overseeing the list?

[Josh Stevens]

Is it a bit rude to ask how a UK website purports to rank courses on the bottom of the planet without even pretending to have visited any of them.

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