GolfMag is catching on-Top 30 Links in world & a complete thread title to boot

[Ronald Montesano]

http://www.golf.com/photos/best-links-courses-world/

You may argue with the submissions, but you cannot be disappointed in the cache' that links golf is receiving in the pop mags of the day.

[Mark Bourgeois]

No no no. Of course we can be disappointed. If they believed in the quality of the links mode they wouldn't feel the need to ghetto-ize links via a special list.

This is just another flavor of Golf Digest's ghetto-ization of "fun" courses. (Apparently their definition of greatness demands sadomasochism.)

Fail.

[jeffwarne]

when 30 of their top 35 or so in the world are links, then we can be pleased
and when they stop calling golf "links golf"

[Mark Bourgeois]

when 30 of their top 35 or so in the world are links, then we can be pleased
and when they stop calling golf "links golf"

YASSSSSS!!!

[Jim Nugent]

Jeff, we can certainly debate what a links is and what is not, but which of the following 23 courses would you take off the list (from GM's top world 35, that it says are not links):

PVGC
CPC
ANGC
Shinnie
Pebble
Oakmont
Merion
NGLA
Sand Hills
Royal Melbourne West
Pinehurst
Crystal Downs
Winged Foot West
Seminole
Fishers
Chicago
Prairie Dunes
San Francisco
Kingston Heath
LACC North
Friar's
Riviera
Oakland Hills

And the related question: which courses to you put in their place? 

[Ronald Montesano]

Mark Bourgeois (or however the vowels are arranged): The Most Royal Order Of The Garter, given for incomparable snobbery and condescension, only to be rivaled by...

Jeff Warne (who is wrong only in this instance): The Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, for prickly yet manly snobbery and hubris. (EVEN THOUGH I MISREAD HIS INTENT IN HIS POST ABOVE...EDITOR'S NOTE)

A) The list consists of 30 golfing grounds, so the random, Warnerian number of 35 is of no concern nor application;

B) A count-down, in reverse order, with verification of pedigree:

30-Royal Porthcawl = links
29-Macrihanish = links
28-EIEIO = links (sorry lads, but it is, high atop a bluff as it might be)
27-European Club = I'll give you this one as not a links
26-Cabot = links of the most Canadian variety
25-Cruden Bay = links
24-Waterville = links
23-Barnbougle Dos = I'll give you this one, also, as not a links (ALTHOUGH IT WOULD BE IF IT WERE IN UPSTATE NEW YORK_EDITOR'S NOTE)
22-Hoylake = well, hoy paloy, another links
21-North Berwick = links
20-Bandon Dunes The Old Course = links (see #28 above)
19-Lytham = links
18-Castle Stewey = I'll give you this one as not a links (that's 3 of 13)
17-Kingsbarns = potatoe field or whatever it was, not a links
16-Portmarnock = links
15-Trump = links (don't confuse his hair for untameable fescue)
14-Troon = links
13-Lahinch = links
12-Barnbougle Uno = Feeling charitable, not a links (THERE IS MUCH DEBATE OVER WHERE UPSTATE NEW YORK BEGINS AND WHERE IT DOESN'T_EDITOR'S NOTE)
11-Birkdale = links
10-RSG = links
09-Carnoustie = links
08-Bandon Dunes The New Course (aka Packy Dunes) = links for the same reason as the other two
07-Turnberry = links
06-Ballybunion = links
05-Portrush = links
04-Dornoch = links
03-Muirfield = links
02-RCD = links
01-TOC = links

Ahem, I say, AHEM...a bit of conduct, if you would. Final tally is 25 links, 5 non-links.

Come at me now. (I'VE DECIDED YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME AT ME IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.)

[Sven Nilsen]

Ron:

Explain your reasoning as to why Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm are not links.

I'm interested to hear.

Sven

[Sean_A]

There are some awfully glaring omissions.  I couldn't say which of the non-GBI links to eliminate, but some how, some way, if a top 30 links list doesn't have room for Deal, Prestwick, Rye and St Enodoc than something is seriously amiss.  Some of the whimsical nature of these designs goes straight to the heart of what links was originally about and if anything that element of the game is something that should be prized as much as anything.  If I had to stick with removing GB&I links then Euro Club, Lytham, Troon and Turnberry would bite the dust.  

Going a step further, surely Renaissance, Island and Formby are a better trio than Carnoustie, Trump and Waterville?

Going a step further, is it not a bit early to annoint so many newbies as best of on the block?  

Ciao

[Jim Nugent]

Ron, Jeff isn't questioning which of those 30 courses is links.  He is saying he thinks 30 of the world's top 35 (or so) courses should be links. 

[Scott Warren]

Ronald,

You lost any credibility when you said the Barnbougle courses are not links. And The European Club is a poor links, but it's a links nonetheless.

A great boss once told me you gotta stick to what you know. Talk to us about upstate New York.

[Ronald Montesano]

Ron, Jeff isn't questioning which of those 30 courses is links.  He is saying he thinks 30 of the world's top 35 (or so) courses should be links. 

Yo no hablo Goat Hill

Ronald,

You lost any credibility when you said the Barnbougle courses are not links. And The European Club is a poor links, but it's a links nonetheless.

A great boss once told me you gotta stick to what you know. Talk to us about upstate New York.

Scott,

I'm sure you're due respect...

We don't have any links courses in upstate New York...

[jeffwarne]

Ron, Jeff isn't questioning which of those 30 courses is links.  He is saying he thinks 30 of the world's top 35 (or so) courses should be links.  

spot on Jim

and of course  I am wrong as your list suggests
Maybe it's 30 of 40

just having a little fun
and anyone who knows me knows that wouldn't be my top thirty.

Just hate it when golf is given a separate category called links golf
There's golf(played on a links)..................then there's parkland golf, heathland golf, downland golf, mini golf ,etc

[Ronald Montesano]

There's golf(played on a links),then there's parkland golf, heathland golf, downland golf, mini golf ,etc

Now that's a little fun. You're breaking your own rule and I see what you did. We all know that mini golf is the one, true path.

[Niall C]

Looks very much like an Americans list of great links courses. I wonder if UK golfers would come up with the same list of suspects. I tend to think that form a UK perspective there would be a good few other courses that would make the list as Sean alludes to.

My barometer with these things is seeing where Silloth comes on the list. It's absence speaks volumes.

Niall

[jeffwarne]

Looks very much like an Americans list of great links courses. I wonder if UK golfers would come up with the same list of suspects. I tend to think that form a UK perspective there would be a good few other courses that would make the list as Sean alludes to.

My barometer with these things is seeing where Silloth comes on the list. It's absence speaks volumes.

Niall

Niall. I'd call it a "promoted" list, and Americans (or any other foreign golf traveler) are far more likely to vote for Trump, Castle Stuart, and Kingsbarns, (all fine golf courses no doubt) than they are to vote for Aberdovey, Portsalon, Narin and Portnoo, Deal, and St. Enodoc, The Island,etc. because they've never heard of them!

In fact I'm watching Matt Ginella who is as well traveled as any well known media guy, and his list is the same promoted stuff

[Brent Hutto]

I want to ask a tangential question which is an honest one. Not trying to make a point or be sarcastic...

A lot of people I meet who have made golf trips to Ireland as well as Scotland and/or England say they prefer the Ireland experience hands down. Just about universally. And I'm talking people who mostly visit the "promoted" type courses, not necessarily our GCA faves.

Are the famous links courses in Ireland notably better than their equivalents in Scotland and England? Or is the experience of being in Ireland just more enjoyable and that enjoyment rubs off on their assessment of the golf?

It's a glaring omission of my own travel history that I've yet to visit Ireland. But from what I know of the courses in various countries, I have a hard time understand why everyone considers Ireland a cut above, say, Scotland as the favorite destination.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Brent,

Discussion with playing partners past weekend:

Player 1: "trip to Scotland coming up. Playing just about all the Scottish Brit Open courses."
Player 2: "been to Ireland? I love Ireland."
Me: "My favorite is England."
Player 1: "Loved Ireland"
Player 2: "So what you do is play Ireland, play Scotland...then go back and play Ireland twice before going back to Scotland."
Player 1: "Scotland, you have to find the fun. They make you feel like they're doing you a favor."
Player 2: "Yeah! Ireland, you just show up. Fun's already there."
Me: "Nothing beats the English club experience. Nothing"
Player 1: "Love Ireland"
Player 2: "Yep, Ireland's gotta be the friendliest place on earth"
Player 1: "plus the dunes!"
Player 2: "Irish courses so much more fun to play"
Player 1: "What's your favorite place over there?"
Me: "Keep going to Ireland. Don't go to England"

[jeffwarne]

I want to ask a tangential question which is an honest one. Not trying to make a point or be sarcastic...

A lot of people I meet who have made golf trips to Ireland as well as Scotland and/or England say they prefer the Ireland experience hands down. Just about universally. And I'm talking people who mostly visit the "promoted" type courses, not necessarily our GCA faves.

Are the famous links courses in Ireland notably better than their equivalents in Scotland and England? Or is the experience of being in Ireland just more enjoyable and that enjoyment rubs off on their assessment of the golf?

It's a glaring omission of my own travel history that I've yet to visit Ireland. But from what I know of the courses in various countries, I have a hard time understand why everyone considers Ireland a cut above, say, Scotland as the favorite destination.

I'll take a stab Brent.
A course like Waterville , Ballybunion, TEC, The Island,RCD, or Lahinch generally has a lot more appeal to a one-two time visitor than say an Aberdovey, a Formby or a Princes.
ireland has a lot of dramatic famous,promoted courses with towering dunes.
I would say in general, with exceptions of course, there are many more very good or even great courses in the UK and Scotland that are more subtle over gentle linkssland that grow on one over time, especially to a repeat visitor.

and the people of Ireland tend to be a bit more outgoing

[Adam Lawrence]

I want to ask a tangential question which is an honest one. Not trying to make a point or be sarcastic...

A lot of people I meet who have made golf trips to Ireland as well as Scotland and/or England say they prefer the Ireland experience hands down. Just about universally. And I'm talking people who mostly visit the "promoted" type courses, not necessarily our GCA faves.

Are the famous links courses in Ireland notably better than their equivalents in Scotland and England? Or is the experience of being in Ireland just more enjoyable and that enjoyment rubs off on their assessment of the golf?

It's a glaring omission of my own travel history that I've yet to visit Ireland. But from what I know of the courses in various countries, I have a hard time understand why everyone considers Ireland a cut above, say, Scotland as the favorite destination.

I'll take a stab Brent.
A course like Waterville , Ballybunion, TEC, The Island,RCD, or Lahinch generally has a lot more appeal to a one-two time visitor than say an Aberdovey, a Formby or a Princes.
ireland has a lot of dramatic famous,promoted courses with towering dunes.
I would say in general, with exceptions of course, there are many more very good or even great courses in the UK and Scotland that are more subtle over gentle linkssland that grow on one over time, especially to a repeat visitor.

and the people of Ireland tend to be a bit more outgoing

Yes, I think it can be summarised in two words - dunes and craic.

[Brent Hutto]

Ah, I see. A man can have an awfully nice vacation if there are enough "dunes and craic" in play so that's probably the key.

Thanks, guys. Hadn't realized the dunes factor favors the Ireland "promoted" courses but it fits in with many of the comments I've heard.

[Jim Nugent]

A lot of people I meet who have made golf trips to Ireland as well as Scotland and/or England say they prefer the Ireland experience hands down. Just about universally.

Are they strictly talking golf courses, or the entire Ireland experience, which includes golf courses but also pubs and the incredibly friendly Irish people? 

[David Davis]

and of course  I am wrong as your list suggests
Maybe it's 30 of 40

I'm clearly biased living outside the US and being a member of a links course but I definitely agree with this. Though I think I'd possible say sand based ground, to include some sandbelt courses that are not links but play certainly as firm and fast as any of the true links courses.

Also agree for the most part with Brian's grass/turf assessment.

Anything and everything not on sand based turf drops, not out but down.

This won't happen because GolfMag is a US publication and it could greatly effect advertising and subscriptions if the truth were to come out.