Par 4s without bunkers

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bryan,

If the three trees were gone, how would you feel about the hole ?

[Bryan Icenhower]

It would make the hole better from fitting in with the rest of the holes, but would not make it so that it was one of my favorite.  Have those trees always been there?

[Jim Briggs]

It would make the hole better from fitting in with the rest of the holes, but would not make it so that it was one of my favorite.  Have those trees always been there?

Bryan,

There was something of a signature tree right there that C&C had left when they cleared the hole.  Very mature and somewhat distinctive, and though it was the only thing in the clearing, nothing that you looked at and said WTF?  Was lost several years ago at which point the club planted what you see there.  I'm with you.  They do look out of place in that there is no way C&C would have left what you see there when they were clearing.  Be interested in what they thought about that planting when they were out the summer before last for the club's 10th anniversary.  I spoke to Bill Coore briefly that evening, but it was about Streamsong and not those plantings on 5.

I't doesn't sound as if I'm as skilled as you, but I like 5 a lot.  Having a visual to the green by being on the left makes a big difference for me, and hitting the left isn't as easy as it looks as the very left fairway in the landing zone cants a little towards the rough making it easy to feed a pulled/overdrawn drive there.

Jim

[Bryan Icenhower]

Well at least I'm skilled enough to know they look out of place, can't really say I'm skilled in a golfing sense otherwise, just had a bunch of days in a row playing golf and played well as a result.

I don't dislike the hole, but I do dislike the 3 trees. Its one of my favorite surrounds on the course that really makes you think when you miss.

[Chris Cupit]

Linville Golf Club. Hole 2. Phenomenal green.

[Chris Cupit]

Can't believe I almost forgot the very next hole. Linville GC hole 3. Certainly a nominee for best back to back bunker less golf holes!  Hole 2 is a blind drive and then a shot of 120-155 yards to the most inverted saucer ever. Hole three is a long par four featuring a tough drive and a long second to another DR gem. I'll try and find pics

[John Kirk]

The 1st hole at Stone Eagle GC in Palm Desert, CA has no bunkers.  It's a pretty good opening hole.  Wide landing area for the tee shot, followed by a short to medium length approach shot whose difficulty depends greatly on hole location.  The green complex is one of the most severe on the golf course.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Can't believe I almost forgot the very next hole. Linville GC hole 3. Certainly a nominee for best back to back bunker less golf holes!  Hole 2 is a blind drive and then a shot of 120-155 yards to the most inverted saucer ever. Hole three is a long par four featuring a tough drive and a long second to another DR gem. I'll try and find pics

I believe Linville has 3 bunker less par 4's. Although I think only the 3rd was originally without sand.

[Bruce Katona]

#10 & #12 @ New Jersey National in Basking Ridge, NJ by Roy Case.

#10 is a long par 4 where the drive plays down into a valley.  The 2 nd shot is uphill into a nice sized green with a dip running thru it. The approach shot requires a hybrid or fairway wood to be played into the unguaded green which runs away on the front edge back down into the faiway.

#12 is a shortish par 4 playing uphill from tee to green.  The 2nd shot is semi-blind due to the change in elevation, to a long and narrow green bisected by a ridge.  The front half of the green runs off into chipping areas short, left and right of the green. 

These are both lots of fun to play.

[Michael Felton]

1 and 18 at RCP (Deal).

[Chris Cupit]

Can't believe I almost forgot the very next hole. Linville GC hole 3. Certainly a nominee for best back to back bunker less golf holes!  Hole 2 is a blind drive and then a shot of 120-155 yards to the most inverted saucer ever. Hole three is a long par four featuring a tough drive and a long second to another DR gem. I'll try and find pics

I believe Linville has 3 bunker less par 4's. Although I think only the 3rd was originally without sand.

10 would be the third hole. A drive and pitch hole with a severe two tiered green. Modern green speeds have rendered this green a tad too severe for my taste but it is certainly a hole that needs no bunkering!

[Thomas Dai]

Not forgetting the whole of Royal Ashdown Forest.

and the whole course at Painswick (although rather bizarrely there is a bunker on the practice ground!) plus there's that allegedly old abandoned golf course on the east coast of Scotland which has a couple of bunkerless par-4 holes
atb

[Doug Siebert]

There are plenty of quality bunkerless par 4s, but how many are there that don't use trees, elevation or "depressions that may as well be bunkers"?  That would be a much smaller number, and I don't think I've seen any that qualify here that I'm familiar with other than Foxy.

[Michael Felton]

There are plenty of quality bunkerless par 4s, but how many are there that don't use trees, elevation or "depressions that may as well be bunkers"?  That would be a much smaller number, and I don't think I've seen any that qualify here that I'm familiar with other than Foxy.

I think that both the holes at Deal qualify for that. Especially the 1st.

[BCowan]

Inverness #7  (Originally #5)

[Michael Goldstein]

13 at Paraparaumu Beach...

[Mark Pearce]

Not forgetting the whole of Royal Ashdown Forest.

and the whole course at Painswick (although rather bizarrely there is a bunker on the practice ground!) plus there's that allegedly old abandoned golf course on the east coast of Scotland which has a couple of bunkerless par-4 holes
atb

And Kington, particularly the 18th.

[Grant Saunders]

Inverness #7  (Originally #5)

I think I would rather see some bunkers purely as eye candy if it meant there wasnt the need to "spruce up" aesthetics with mowing patterns like in this photo.

[Sean_A]

Inverness #7  (Originally #5)

I think I would rather see some bunkers purely as eye candy if it meant there wasnt the need to "spruce up" aesthetics with mowing patterns like in this photo.

Awful isn't it?  How the lines of the fairway visually intersect the green is very jarring. I know its pie in the sky, but wouldn't it be loads better visually of the fairway included the closest tree on the left?  OTherwise, what is the point of that tree?

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Inverness #7  (Originally #5)

I think I would rather see some bunkers purely as eye candy if it meant there wasnt the need to "spruce up" aesthetics with mowing patterns like in this photo.

Awful isn't it?  How the lines of the fairway visually intersect the green is very jarring. I know its pie in the sky, but wouldn't it be loads better visually of the fairway included the closest tree on the left?  OTherwise, what is the point of that tree?

Ciao

My god, that is horrible.

[BCowan]

Grant,

     Being that I didn't take the photo it looks as though it was taken in April.  Besides your focus on mowing lines, the hole is considered one of Ross's best.  Mowing lines are temporary and hyper-focusing on them is First World Problems imho.   

[Sean_A]

Grant,

     Being that I didn't take the photo it looks as though it was taken in April.  Besides your focus on mowing lines, the hole is considered one of Ross's best.  Mowing lines are temporary and hyper-focusing on them is First World Problems imho.  

BC

Well, golf is 1st world problem so that argument is toast    

I disagree.  The current mowing lines 100% dictate the direction of play.  In effect, its a roadmap to the hole, not much different philosophically if bunkers were slapped along the left side.

BTW - Kington is not a one trick pony.  Besides the all-world 18th, #s 1 & 13 are excellent bunkerless par 4s.

Ciao 

Ciao

[Mark Bourgeois]

The Norman Wilkinson School of Mowing. 

Sean seems to be right: why isn't the fairway extended to the left? Not just the tree but the rightward slope. Looks like yet another example of a great old club losing its way as far as proper width.

[BCowan]

Grant,

     Being that I didn't take the photo it looks as though it was taken in April.  Besides your focus on mowing lines, the hole is considered one of Ross's best.  Mowing lines are temporary and hyper-focusing on them is First World Problems imho.  

BC

Well, golf is 1st world problem so that argument is toast    

I disagree.  The current mowing lines 100% dictate the direction of play.  In effect, its a roadmap to the hole, not much different philosophically if bunkers were slapped along the left side.

BTW - Kington is not a one trick pony.  Besides the all-world 18th, #s 1 & 13 are excellent bunkerless par 4s.

Ciao

Ciao

S,

   I have never let mowing lines dictate the direction of play.  JN picked a spot within a foot of his ball for alignment purposes.    Golf has done nothing but raise peoples position in the world!  Maybe the course should consult you in the future.  

The fairway is plenty wide, the photo cuts out the fairway on the left.  The hole gives you so many options.  The tree on the left is only a problem if you duck hook off the tee.  The tree right of the green was a problem for it provided too much shade to the green, I have been told they cut it down last fall.  The green hopefully is playing much firmer with that morning sun hitting it!   

B

[Aaron McMaster]

Grant,

     Being that I didn't take the photo it looks as though it was taken in April.  Besides your focus on mowing lines, the hole is considered one of Ross's best.  Mowing lines are temporary and hyper-focusing on them is First World Problems imho.  

BC

Well, golf is 1st world problem so that argument is toast    

I disagree.  The current mowing lines 100% dictate the direction of play.  In effect, its a roadmap to the hole, not much different philosophically if bunkers were slapped along the left side.

BTW - Kington is not a one trick pony.  Besides the all-world 18th, #s 1 & 13 are excellent bunkerless par 4s.

Ciao

Ciao

S,

   I have never let mowing lines dictate the direction of play.  JN picked a spot within a foot of his ball for alignment purposes.    Golf has done nothing but raise peoples position in the world!  Maybe the course should consult you in the future.  

The fairway is plenty wide, the photo cuts out the fairway on the left.  The hole gives you so many options.  The tree on the left is only a problem if you duck hook off the tee.  The tree right of the green was a problem for it provided too much shade to the green, I have been told they cut it down last fall.  The green hopefully is playing much firmer with that morning sun hitting it!   

B

Mowing lines really never dictate direction of play.  Most good players pickout a point to drive the ball too not striping lines.  That said, this is an old photo.  I played Inverness on opening day this year and not only was it not striped like this but both the terrible tree left along the fairway and the large Oak just right of the green are gone.  Major improvement.