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John Foley

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NGLA Map
« on: August 20, 2003, 01:41:23 PM »
I noticed that a new version of Macdonald's Scotland's Gift has recently been published. When I saw it at B&N last night I was surprised to find that it did not include the fold-out map of NGLA done by E.J Raisz which my version contains.

It got me thinking about the map and it's existance. Anyone know? Mr (or Dr.) Raisz wrote some books on cartography in the 30 & 40's but thats about all I could find in the short time I looked around on the Web.

The map is a very cool rendering of NGLA with an artistic flair. I beleive a smaller version was also in Forrest's book on routing. Was it commisioned for the last publication of Scotland's gift or was done for the National or another reason?

Where's George Bhato when you need him!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2003, 01:42:24 PM by john_foley »
Integrity in the moment of choice

Forrest Richardson

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Re:NGLA Map
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2003, 11:23:59 PM »
John,

If you e-mail Valerie she can probably tell you where we got to rights to use the map. I recall it was from the author's family.

valerie@golfgroupltd.com
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

George_Bahto

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Re:NGLA Map
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2003, 11:48:13 PM »
John - I'm here

there is also my rendition of the map in the front and rear liner of my book
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Mike Hendren

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Re:NGLA Map
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2003, 01:28:41 PM »
Mr. Bahto,

I love your illustration.  Any chance it is available by print commercially for framing?

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NGLA Map
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2003, 06:35:38 PM »
Mike Hendren - Mike thank you for the kind words - yes, it will be available and with a lot more detail - it's
a part of the project still in the works

Originally the my course drawing of NGLA  was to be placed in the book somewhat like the map in
Scotland's Gift and was to be somewhere in the National portion of the text.

The publisher was "scrambling" a bit about the publishing date (we were 2-3 months late) and pushing
me for final editing - also the there was a change in ownership - next thing I knew it was the inside cover
plates - and there is a piece of the drawing missing as well. I was not happy - that was to be a feature
piece - a double gate-fold, I think the original concept was called.

I may end up publishing that and some of the other courses drawings myself as a group or as single
pieces suitable for framing.

There are a lot more course drawings for the book that will review all the (Macdonald) Raynor and Banks
courses. I tried to make my renditions of the "original intent" of their architecture. I have a large collection
of that material..

What has "happened" to these courses over the years is another story (wow - in many cases do we really
want to know) ...... however, there were quite a few courses that were “improved” by clubs -  hah! ............  
 well I guess not  :-)

But thankfully lately there have been a number of excellent restorations and many of the courses have
headed back to embrace what once was, after so many years of near destruction.

As most of you who know me are aware, my goal in all this, and in all I continue to do, is to honor their
original work. Their work and the work of most of the original work of the architects from the Golden Age
do not need very much "help" from others. If most of these courses were put back to the way they were
originally built and with their original greens and undulations (most have been lost) as well as the severity
of their original bunkering, you'd have one a heck of time scoring.

"We" had a phrase come out of Yale not long ago ...... saying "the original Raynor course was unplayable
- too tough."            hah - I guess that means NGLA, Fishers Island and some of the other "originals" are
too tough to  play also    .....

And by the way the coninuing destruction of the Yale course continues as I'm typing this. I'm sure Geoff
Childs will fill  us in on another thread soon.

I’m sure a lot of you are tired of hearing about Yale and what has been done to the great design. In my
not too humble opinion, in its original form that was the finest of all the Seth Raynor courses. “We” who
love that course keep bring the subject up to serve as a sad lesson on what can be done to a great piece
of art (in the name of “repair/restoration/ ease of maintenance”  - the phrase changes as they get
whacked about what they do). That course was textbook.

None of us has played the course as originally built and we all still think it is a super course even though it
is a shell of itself.  I doubt if I’ll ever play it again - I’ll go there to show others what once was, and like
some old girlfriend, try to remember her as she was in her “glory days”

Sorry for rambling.

George Bahto
ggb313@aol.com
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:NGLA Map
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2003, 12:28:32 PM »
George -

I am interested on your take on the current destruction of The Course at Yale.  I played there a few weeks ago and saw the work on #12, #13 & #16.  

Personally, I thought that the fron bunker on #12 was too high on the hill for this alpen hole, but applauded the back bunker on the redan #13.  #16 didn't appear to be much of consequence.  I realize that there are a lot of other blunders previously commited to Raynor's work, but what do think?

KLP

P.S.  I wish, oh how I wish that they had the resources to fix the drainage, especially on #4, #6, #10, #11, #18 (First fairway).

GeoffreyC

Re:NGLA Map
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2003, 10:45:56 PM »
KLP

?  A few (few  = 4 in my book) weeks ago the work on #12 had not yet been started?  #16 was done and #13 was not complete.

You will hear plenty in the near future. The group of amateur members directing Roger Rulewich simply don't get it and they certainly don't want a sensitve restoration.  What they tell the membership while asking for their donations is something different.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NGLA Map
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2003, 07:28:31 AM »
Mr Raisz' most excellent drawing is also included in 'The Complete Golfer', edited by Herbert Warren Wind (Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954). It is printed as a foldout along with AM's drawing of TOC and RTJ's drawings of Merion, PH#2, PB, PV, OH and ANGC. (Dontcha just love our collective ability to reduce these magnificent places and talented people to mere acronyms?)
I managed to pick up a First Edition for about a Fiver on Ebay!!!

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.