[Bill_McBride]

There's a nice article by GCAer Tim Gavrich at golfvacationinsider.com on Pinehurst 2 as "The Anti-Augusta."

[Paul Gray]

An excellent article in that it articulates to the novice just why 'brown is down.'

[Terry Lavin]

I'm also "down with brown", but America is still "keen on green".

[John Kavanaugh]

Augusta plays as firm as the design allows. I don't see a problem.

[Jason Thurman]

If we're all supposed to be cultured enough to look beyond color and focus on playability, we should be smart enough to see that Pinehurst and Augusta have more in common than they do separating them.

[Paul Gray]

Augusta plays as firm as the design allows. I don't see a problem.

And wrong again. Augusta plays nothing like MacKenzie deigned it to play.

[Terry Lavin]

Augusta looks like a computer generated video game, with phosphorescent green filling the screen.  Pinehurst looks like there's something wrong with the color separation on the television. Each is special.

[Mac Plumart]

Each is special.

Agreed 100%!

That's one of the beauties of golf.  Each course is different and unique.  Let's embrace that.

[Nigel Islam]

If we're all supposed to be cultured enough to look beyond color and focus on playability, we should be smart enough to see that Pinehurst and Augusta have more in common than they do separating them.

I kind of agree. I think Augusta "suffers" on this site because we have such a large sample size.

[Brent Hutto]

Augusta mostly suffers on this site from being blamed for all the ills of the game. Another example of how we may pretend otherwise around here but it's all about visuals.

Downgrading a course because it's too green arises from the same bloody-minded impulse as downgrading a course because it's too brown. Disparaging a course because its bunker edges are too perfectly manicured makes no more sense than praising a course because there's frilly grass and ragged edges overhanging every bunker.

[Jason Thurman]

Both have:

* Wide playing corridors where simply hitting the fairway isn't adequate as a strategy for the good player, but that allow the weaker player to keep the ball in play.
* Little/no traditional rough. Augusta has a small area of tame first-cut, while Pinehurst has a fairway cut and a greens cut.
* Large proliferation of "native areas" - Augusta's are more "landscaped areas" than "native," but they're similar in that lies are unconventional while still being playable and keeping balls easy to find.
* Reasonably fast and firm conditions - Pinehurst's conditions at the US Open are not reflective of its conditions for daily play. It's a moderately firm and fast course but not exceptionally so. Augusta plays as firm and fast as nature allows every spring for the Masters.
* Strategy dictated by greens and their contours.

Our lambasting of Augusta for being green is as silly as people who lambast Pinehurst for its color without considering its playing qualities. If Augusta painted their turf a mottled yellow-green-brown and hosted a GCA event with conditions otherwise identical in playing quality to those at The Masters in an ideal weather year, we'd all rave about how great the presentation is.

[Mac Plumart]

Our lambasting of Augusta for being green is as silly as people who lambast Pinehurst for its color without considering its playing qualities

Shazam!  Yep, yep.

[Jim Nugent]

Augusta suffers on this site because so few have played it.  Those who have seem just about unanimous: the course is spectacular, unique, worthy of nearly every superlative we can come up with to describe it. 

[Terry Lavin]

Augusta suffers on this site because so few have played it.  Those who have seem just about unanimous: the course is spectacular, unique, worthy of nearly every superlative we can come up with to describe it. 

It is, in fact, so great that even the boneheaded tree plantings designed to bedevil the pros don't really do the course any measurable disservice.

[cary lichtenstein]

Augusta is a great golf course for a professional tournament, I played it twice  and it was an honor to play but Pine Valley is way better

[Paul Gray]

But the argument is not about green vs brown. Colour is simply a by-product. So, that being the cse, the argument against a green appearance is in no way the same as the argument against brown because the two arguments actually have entirely different focuses. One is about substance, one about style. I couldn't really care if great playing conditions happened to be purple. It's all about the interaction between ball and turf.

[George Freeman]

Great article and more like this one need to be written.

But, just when you feel hopeful, you read the comments section...

[Paul Gray]

Great article and more like this one need to be written.

But, just when you feel hopeful, you read the comments section...

I quite agree. Time to comment then.

[Paul Gray]

Great article and more like this one need to be written.

But, just when you feel hopeful, you read the comments section...

I quite agree. Time to comment then.

[Terry Lavin]

I read the comments section and I must say that I'm not all that surprised at the tenor of those who are in the "brown ain't renown" crowd.  Our own Mr. Gray added that this is something to get used to and referred to the Open at Hoylake, but that was in 2006, eight years ago!  I think that a lot of people think that this is more of a stunt than a fad and many more just will never be conditioned to get used to grass in dormancy during the summer here in the States.  I was mildly encouraged at the number of people who agreed with Tim Gavrich's point of view, because it was more than just a smattering of support.  Probably the biggest takeaway from the comments to the article related to the cost of playing Pinehurst.  People are a bit gobsmacked by the price.  I've seen $400 and $450, which is Pebble Beach material.  Pinehurst may be a lot of things, but Pebble Beach it is not.  If the argument for the native/brown setup is based in part on environmental AND cost savings, the new sticker price would be markedly inconsistent with that. I'm sure that Pinehurst will get a big bump in play based on hosting another Open, but the repeat business will be hurt by the greens fee.

[jeffwarne]

Augusta plays as firm as the design allows. I don't see a problem.

And wrong again. Augusta plays nothing like MacKenzie deigned it to play.

really? nothing?
please elaborate
please tell me how he intended a course open only in the winter, built on clay was "intended to play"

[Tim_Weiman]

Augusta is a great golf course for a professional tournament, I played it twice  and it was an honor to play but Pine Valley is way better

Cary,

I certainly feel closer to Pine Valley based on both playing experience and personal connections, but I do feel Augusta's style fits better for many handicap players. Of course, it is super exciting to play Augusta and there are a number of tough shots, but overall it is more friendly to the average guy - as Mackenzie intended. Pine Valley, on the other hand, can be pretty intimidating with all the forced carries and the greens, while perhaps not as famous as Augusta's, are still pretty tough.

Tough to say which is the more beautiful.

[Nigel Islam]

Our lambasting of Augusta for being green is as silly as people who lambast Pinehurst for its color without considering its playing qualities. If Augusta painted their turf a mottled yellow-green-brown and hosted a GCA event with conditions otherwise identical in playing quality to those at The Masters in an ideal weather year, we'd all rave about how great the presentation is.

I really wonder whether anybody would show up if there was a GCA event played there? Certainly nobody would pay more than $75 to play.

[Paul Gray]

Jeff,

Are you suggesting that MacKenzie envisaged no roll, more trees, vamping up bunkers?

[Don Mahaffey]

I believe there is a place in golf for both presentations.

I am a very strong proponent of what Pinehurst did, but it would be very difficult to do something like that on Georgia mud.

Richer soils will usually have green grass. That is what works on soils that hold water and nutrients. Poverty soils like sand that do not hold much can support a different type of turf.

I think it is silly to compare the color or the presentation of two courses that have a completely different soil base.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()