He's back!!!

[Michael Whitaker]

Guys,

When John perceives a line of thought on this site is too popular he cooks up a counter argument to be provocative. There is nothing genuine about his comments.

Can't you hear him giggling as he sets the hook?

[John Kavanaugh]

Guys,

When John perceives a line of thought on this site is too popular he cooks up a counter argument to be provocative. There is nothing genuine about his comments.

Can't you hear him giggling as he sets the hook?

My only joke on this thread was the title. I wanted to bait the Tiger groupies.

As far as the set up today, 227 yds did not require the elite ladies to hit driver as many were hitting fairway woods and hybrids. The men hit Driver on 3 on Thursday, some even hitting the green on the fly and holding because of the artificially soft conditions. It was Thusday morning where I first felt Ross was being misrepresented both by the shortening of the hole and the softness of the greens.  To say that 3 played the same when shortened for both the men and ladies is simply not true. 227 was far too short.

[BHoover]

Guys,

When John perceives a line of thought on this site is too popular he cooks up a counter argument to be provocative. There is nothing genuine about his comments.

Can't you hear him giggling as he sets the hook?

Isn't that also what a sociopath does?

[Keith Grande]

Moving up tees 100 yards is an abomination. It's the only major where this happens... The reality tv that USGA shoves down our throats. Do the green jackets at the Masters move up tees to a drivable par 4?  Does this happen at The Open Championship? The PGA? The Players? Ryder Cup? Walker Cup?

[Nigel Islam]

Moving up tees 100 yards is an abomination. It's the only major where this happens... The reality tv that USGA shoves down our throats. Do the green jackets at the Masters move up tees to a drivable par 4?  Does this happen at The Open Championship? The PGA? The Players? Ryder Cup? Walker Cup?

It has happened at the Ryder Cup on a few occasions. The Masters did do it several years ago on 3. I just think that those holes were better suited than some of the USGA versions. I can't believe 7 was ever intended to be one you could get close to with a driver. I will sort of give them a pass on 3 for the men, but wouldn't a par 4 of 260 have been more of a strategic decision? it is a no brainier at 227.

[Matthew Essig]

Moving up tees 100 yards is an abomination. It's the only major where this happens... The reality tv that USGA shoves down our throats. Do the green jackets at the Masters move up tees to a drivable par 4?  Does this happen at The Open Championship? The PGA? The Players? Ryder Cup? Walker Cup?

Yes, the PGA will occasionally move tees up to make a drivable par 4.

[Matthew Essig]

As far as the set up today, 227 yds did not require the elite ladies to hit driver as many were hitting fairway woods and hybrids. The men hit Driver on 3 on Thursday, some even hitting the green on the fly and holding because of the artificially soft conditions. It was Thusday morning where I first felt Ross was being misrepresented both by the shortening of the hole and the softness of the greens.  To say that 3 played the same when shortened for both the men and ladies is simply not true. 227 was far too short.

The combination of the worse angle the ladies had around the trees, the inability for the women to hold the green as well with a driver, and the headwind on the hole resulted in the hole playing very similar to the men. I would love to see the final stats for the hole and the day in comparison to the men.

[Paul Gray]

Ran theorized that the removal of mid length par fours helps the bombers. Interesting who is leading. Instead of great architecture we are watching a version of scripted reality TV.

I like to try and figure out why you have bug up your bunn at times. This time, I can't figure out your issue with Pinehurst.

If Michelle Wie is not a great putter, how do those greens fit into the scripted reality TV ?

Mr Sweeney,

Like you, I do try to figure out the angles John takes. I guess that kind of thinking is why I approve of Pinehurst!

Anyway, I suspect this particular venture is simply about defending the status quo he calls golf. Regardless of the accuracy of Bill Coore's work, I suspect he doesn't realise that in berating Pinehurst he is picking a fight with the most endearing architects in the history of the game.

[Niall C]

Natalie Gulbis was interviewed on Sky TV here in the UK on the Sunday of the mens Open. When asked about the course and how she expected it to be set up she basically said the course would need to be shortened as not only don't the ladies hit as far but also they can't get as much spin as the men with the same club. From memory she suggested that for a woman to get as much spin as a man gets with a 7 iron, then the woman would need to be hitting a 9 iron.

Interesting comment that highlighted it isn't just about length but also control of the golf ball. For that to be a factor suggests to me that they must be setting the course up well.

Niall

[Brent Hutto]

The 3rd hole for the women's 2nd round was 229 yards and played to a 3.75 stroke average (18th hardest hole). Two eagles, one double or worse.

The 3rd hole for the men's 2nd round was 315 yards and played to a 3.61 stroke average (17th hardest hole). One eagle, two doubles or worse.

So it apparently played easier for the men than the women in the 2nd round. That said, the overall scoring for the men's 2nd round was two stroke better than the women's 2nd round. So realistically the hole played very similarly.

By the way, later in the men's tournament that tee was used again...

The 3rd hole for the men's 4th round was 313 yards and played to a 3.72 stroke average (17th hardest hole).

[Mike Sweeney]

Anyway, I suspect this particular venture is simply about defending the status quo he calls golf. Regardless of the accuracy of Bill Coore's work, I suspect he doesn't realise that in berating Pinehurst he is picking a fight with the most endearing architects in the history of the game.

John is waaaaaay more complicated that this 

There is some private vs public thing in there combined with Jaka's neurosis about East Coast venues too. It is a complicated one for sure, but he has two more days of therapy watching the ladies to work it out......

Not sure if he realizes that by picking on C&C, he is turning himself into more and more of a Doak butt boy I knew when he did not resign his membership at Dismal on the day that Doak broke ground, this day was coming.....

[Carl Rogers]

Natalie Gulbis was interviewed on Sky TV here in the UK on the Sunday of the mens Open. When asked about the course and how she expected it to be set up she basically said the course would need to be shortened as not only don't the ladies hit as far but also they can't get as much spin as the men with the same club. From memory she suggested that for a woman to get as much spin as a man gets with a 7 iron, then the woman would need to be hitting a 9 iron.

Interesting comment that highlighted it isn't just about length but also control of the golf ball. For that to be a factor suggests to me that they must be setting the course up well.

Niall

Why I think that the Women & all the rest of us need their own courses, because we are not and cannot play the same game.

[BCowan]

Natalie Gulbis was interviewed on Sky TV here in the UK on the Sunday of the mens Open. When asked about the course and how she expected it to be set up she basically said the course would need to be shortened as not only don't the ladies hit as far but also they can't get as much spin as the men with the same club. From memory she suggested that for a woman to get as much spin as a man gets with a 7 iron, then the woman would need to be hitting a 9 iron.

Interesting comment that highlighted it isn't just about length but also control of the golf ball. For that to be a factor suggests to me that they must be setting the course up well.

Niall

   I'd rather see more ground game and a longer course.  She is thinking about golf like a typical American ''Aerial Game'' only.  I've enjoyed watching the 11 year old play and roll it up onto the greens.  She possibly is playing the course more to the way DR intended #2 to play.   Now if she is referring to some of the par 3's i understand. 

[Howard Riefs]

For today's third round...

- 3rd hole, which played 229 yards yesterday, is playing 330
- 9th hole is back to 155 yards from 124 yesterday.

[John Kavanaugh]

For today's third round...

- 3rd hole, which played 229 yards yesterday, is playing 330
- 9th hole is back to 155 yards from 124 yesterday.

The course is at 6649 today.  The elite women deserve a chance to show the world their talents. Huge kudos to Mike Davis.

[Garland Bayley]

For today's third round...

- 3rd hole, which played 229 yards yesterday, is playing 330
- 9th hole is back to 155 yards from 124 yesterday.

The course is at 6649 today.  The elite women deserve a chance to show the world their talents. Huge kudos to Mike Davis.

Kudos, because he screwed up the course for two days so the freak show 11 year old could get all the media attention?
Kudos, because the qualifiers are played at too short a distance to get a proper field of women?

[Jud_T]

The 3rd hole for the women's 2nd round was 229 yards and played to a 3.75 stroke average (18th hardest hole). Two eagles, one double or worse.

The 3rd hole for the men's 2nd round was 315 yards and played to a 3.61 stroke average (17th hardest hole). One eagle, two doubles or worse.

So it apparently played easier for the men than the women in the 2nd round. That said, the overall scoring for the men's 2nd round was two stroke better than the women's 2nd round. So realistically the hole played very similarly.

By the way, later in the men's tournament that tee was used again...

The 3rd hole for the men's 4th round was 313 yards and played to a 3.72 stroke average (17th hardest hole).

Brent,

Let's not discourage more conjecture by quoting actual facts.

[John Kavanaugh]

For today's third round...

- 3rd hole, which played 229 yards yesterday, is playing 330
- 9th hole is back to 155 yards from 124 yesterday.

The course is at 6649 today.  The elite women deserve a chance to show the world their talents. Huge kudos to Mike Davis.

Ouch.  I was wrong, the official site has been updated to indicate a course playing at 6270. One young lady is two under after 15 with an eagle on the 464yd par 5 fifth.

[Bill_McBride]

For today's third round...

- 3rd hole, which played 229 yards yesterday, is playing 330
- 9th hole is back to 155 yards from 124 yesterday.

The course is at 6649 today.  The elite women deserve a chance to show the world their talents. Huge kudos to Mike Davis.

Kudos, because he screwed up the course for two days so the freak show 11 year old could get all the media attention?
Kudos, because the qualifiers are played at too short a distance to get a proper field of women?

Wow Garland, that's a snarky comment even from you.  I was charmed watching that young lady knock long clubs onto the greens.  "Freak show" is pretty mean. 

[Jim Nugent]

Wait for it...some apologist will soon let me know that the stats indicate that Wie isn't a bomber.

I'll step up to the plate.  Michelle averaged 237 off the tee in her second round.  The field averaged 238. 

She also hit fewer fairways than the field: 71% vs 73%. 

I recall similar stats at the Dinah Shore, where Michelle averaged 230 something off the tee.  Is she dialing back her driver, or maybe hitting less club? 

[David_Tepper]

Bill M. -

I suspect our friend Garland is just a wee bit jealous of young Ms. Li, especially as she has handled this whole affair with more dignity, maturity and class (and a better sense of humor) than he has.

DT

[Niall C]

Natalie Gulbis was interviewed on Sky TV here in the UK on the Sunday of the mens Open. When asked about the course and how she expected it to be set up she basically said the course would need to be shortened as not only don't the ladies hit as far but also they can't get as much spin as the men with the same club. From memory she suggested that for a woman to get as much spin as a man gets with a 7 iron, then the woman would need to be hitting a 9 iron.

Interesting comment that highlighted it isn't just about length but also control of the golf ball. For that to be a factor suggests to me that they must be setting the course up well.

Niall

   I'd rather see more ground game and a longer course.  She is thinking about golf like a typical American ''Aerial Game'' only.  I've enjoyed watching the 11 year old play and roll it up onto the greens.  She possibly is playing the course more to the way DR intended #2 to play.   Now if she is referring to some of the par 3's i understand. 

I agree, I would rather see a ground game but as Brian S pointed out in another thread, Pinehurst doesn't lend itself to that therefore these guys need to land on the greens.

Niall

[Garland Bayley]

Bill M. -

I suspect our friend Garland is just a wee bit jealous of young Ms. Li, especially as she has handled this whole affair with more dignity, maturity and class (and a better sense of humor) than he has.

DT

Here's the deal. Last night I watch the CBS Evening New, The News Hour on PBS, and Charlie Rose show. All reported on the Women's Open. All only reported that an 11 year old missed the cut. Nothing else. Nothing about the leaders. Now I are a engineer without a great vocabulary, so maybe freak is in poor taste, but if you literary types want to suggest a better word, I will gladly go back and edit my post.

Ms. Wie and Ms. Thompson are playing the course far better than the vast majority of you ever could, and yet all you talk about is an 11 year old. The USGA needs to quit sponsoring a circus, and hold a proper women's golf tournament.
JMO

[BCowan]

Bill M. -

I suspect our friend Garland is just a wee bit jealous of young Ms. Li, especially as she has handled this whole affair with more dignity, maturity and class (and a better sense of humor) than he has.

DT

Here's the deal. Last night I watch the CBS Evening New, The News Hour on PBS, and Charlie Rose show. All reported on the Women's Open. All only reported that an 11 year old missed the cut. Nothing else. Nothing about the leaders. Now I are a engineer without a great vocabulary, so maybe freak is in poor taste, but if you literary types want to suggest a better word, I will gladly go back and edit my post.

Ms. Wie and Ms. Thompson are playing the course far better than the vast majority of you ever could, and yet all you talk about is an 11 year old. The USGA needs to quit sponsoring a circus, and hold a proper women's golf tournament.
JMO

   So are you advocating controlling the media and what stories they cover?  That is basically what you are saying.  You could of just turned your TV off and not watched CBS and PBS and wrote them a letter.  A 11 year old qualifying for a Woman's Open is awesome and is something that should be looked at as a positive. 

[John Kirk]

Bill M. -

I suspect our friend Garland is just a wee bit jealous of young Ms. Li, especially as she has handled this whole affair with more dignity, maturity and class (and a better sense of humor) than he has.

DT

Here's the deal. Last night I watch the CBS Evening New, The News Hour on PBS, and Charlie Rose show. All reported on the Women's Open. All only reported that an 11 year old missed the cut. Nothing else. Nothing about the leaders. Now I are a engineer without a great vocabulary, so maybe freak is in poor taste, but if you literary types want to suggest a better word, I will gladly go back and edit my post.

Ms. Wie and Ms. Thompson are playing the course far better than the vast majority of you ever could, and yet all you talk about is an 11 year old. The USGA needs to quit sponsoring a circus, and hold a proper women's golf tournament.
JMO

   So are you advocating controlling the media and what stories they cover?  That is basically what you are saying.  You could of just turned your TV off and not watched CBS and PBS and wrote them a letter.  A 11 year old qualifying for a Woman's Open is awesome and is something that should be looked at as a positive. 

No need to control the media further; that's being handled already.

In the future, Garland, I suggest you refer to Ms. Li as a "dorky goofball".  "What are you going to do for the rest of the day?"  "Eat more ice cream. LOLOLOLOL."