[Bryan Icenhower]

How many other course owners are we currently talking about?  It's his way of doing things, and maybe we don't agree with it, but it starts discussion.

I would be very surprised if someone is doing the writing for him.

[Jason Thurman]

Grantland's Shane Ryan disagrees with the guy who owns generic courses in the dregs of Florida and tweets idiotically. See the last three paragraphs: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/restorations-martin-kaymers-u-s-open-win-at-pinehurst-no-2/

[cary lichtenstein]

If Trump bought Pinehurst #2, he would immediately declare it to be the best course in the World

He PR is as amazing as his hairdo

[Mac Plumart]

 He prefers aesthetically "beautiful" courses, at least to his eye and doesn't care much for the nuances and courses that preset themselves  without 3 pounds of make up to hide "imperfections", again, to his eye.

D Cronan...

I think this hits the nail on the head.  HE PREFERS aesthetically beautiful courses.  That is his preference.  We've all got'em.  That is why ratings and opinions on golf courses vary and why they are so many different types of courses where golfers can enjoy the game.

[Jerry Kluger]

Sometimes you think that you are far more important than you really are.  Trump thinks he is bigger than the USGA but that simply isn't the case.  He certainly has alienated the USGA and probably the R & A as well so his quest to host a major championship at one of his venues has certainly diminished to near zero possibility.  Maybe the PGA might consider one of his courses for their championship but I suspect that the USGA might make them aware of how they feel about it.  My best guess is that Trump realizes that he's never going to get a men's major so he is going to try and make Doral into a semi-major.

And kudos to Matt Ginella for telling Trump the truth - he's an idiot.

[Pat Burke]

Qualifying statement
 My favorite courses in my career were the Melbourne sandbelt.

So much of the discourse I witness seems to be like the Pinehurst conversation.

I liked some of what I saw at Pinehurst, am a fan of firm and fast, though not hard and silly.

We had members think the course looked lousy, some that were fascinated by it, and some that didn't care one way or another.
There is room for all of them, isn't there?

As we inevitably run in to water costs that will kill many courses, we will all have to adjust our expectations.  Watching balls roll up onto greens and then back 10 yards down a fairway however, doesn't interest many, at least for long.  The Pinehurst presentation is great.  The USGA'ing of that presentation was over the top and won't help convert many of the "green is keen" fans.

[Paul Gray]

Sometimes Trump makes me angry and sometimes I just like to laugh at him. This is most certainly a case of the latter.

Obviously he's going to kick back against Pinehurst. The man makes an awful lot of money by selling mutton dressed as lamb to the masses too stupid to realise what they're being sold. Any threat posed by intelligent architecture is an insult to the guy, given that the world is only here to serve his ever desire.

But I really don't think there's any need to worry as the optimist in me is certain that, so long as nobody starts resting on their laurels, the tide is only going one way. Even Donald Trump, though he would probably give it a go, can't actually stop the tide. Just relax and enjoy watching as he gets ever more irate in the coming years or, and I've been suggesting for a while, bows to the inevitable and tries to reinvent his position without loosing face.

 

[Charlie Gallagher]

    I'm not in the club that has made a cottage industry out of  bashing Trump, I think he has been a friend to the game and done some great things for it.
  That said, I find this remark revealing. I think it was Mac Plumart who previously commented that Trump prefers lush green golf, or words to that effect. Well, that is one genre of the game, but a trip to Carne, County Louth, Royal County Down, or other links venues after weeks without rain will reveal another arch type of the game, one much closer to Pinehurst #2 in its qualites, and way more entertaining than the form played on lush grass, at least to my preference.
    I find it interesting that the critiques I have heard from design enthusiasts of Trump's Scotish course focus mainly on the fact that it doesn't play like a links and is a bit sterile to the eye. If that is his preference, that is ok, but I won't bother to visit the course until I am told it is set up for firm and fast. I can play parkland in the US, I don't need to waste time on it when I'm in the lands of links golf.
   Pinehurst #2 presents a three dimensional game in that the ground shots are all around the greens. The same cannot be said for many parkland venues. I much prefer the variety of the former coated in brown to the monotony of latter mantled in green.

[Adam Lawrence]

Sometimes Trump makes me angry and sometimes I just like to laugh at him. This is most certainly a case of the latter.

Obviously he's going to kick back against Pinehurst. The man makes an awful lot of money by selling mutton dressed as lamb to the masses too stupid to realise what they're being sold. Any threat posed by intelligent architecture is an insult to the guy, given that the world is only here to serve his ever desire.
 

Odd assessment, Paul. Every one of Trump's courses is super high end. I don't see the masses at his venues. Also 'makes an awful lot of money'? Well, maybe. Balmedie for one has to be bleeding money at a terrifying rate. Doral I could see making a good return, but an awful lot of money has been spent there in the last 18 months. The others, well, who knows? But I do know that if a Trump has figured out how to make money hand over fist from golf then the rest of the industry would like to know how.

[Paul Gray]

Adam,

Masses was the wrong term. People with more money than sense would have been more fitting.

And I should have said that his product, whether financially successful or not, is based on selling mutton dressed as lamb. I forget that servicing his ego often causes him to lose money.

[Josh Stevens]

As much as all non-Americans and many Americans find him crass, unpleasant, moronic and a subject of ridicule, he is far richer and more successful than all of us and so not a total idiot.

Has he however, as someone here said, just alienated the powers once too often with his hair and his antics.  Will The Open ever really go back to Turnberry or would the old duffers at the R&A  choke on their Kummel at the thought of giving the walking talking bouffant another excuse to bleat about how marvellous he is?

[Sean_A]

The Open will most definitely return to Turnberry unless Trump decides it won't because of a grudge or asking too much of the R&A.  I think Trump would bend over backwards to help out the R&A, but I also think he will expect something in return.  In a way Trump is an old time operator, a you scratch my back I scratch your back kinda guy.  In the right hands that type of personality in our over-regulated world can still be very persuasive.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

As much as all non-Americans and many Americans find him crass, unpleasant, moronic and a subject of ridicule, he is far richer and more successful than all of us and so not a total idiot.

Has he however, as someone here said, just alienated the powers once too often with his hair and his antics.  Will The Open ever really go back to Turnberry or would the old duffers at the R&A  choke on their Kummel at the thought of giving the walking talking bouffant another excuse to bleat about how marvellous he is?

Depends on how you measure success Josh.

I, like Sean would be surprised if the Open does not return to Turnberry. I am sure when it does that Mr. Trump will do everything possible to make the event one to be remembered.

Jon

[Josh Stevens]

well he has a bigger helicopter than me

IF they do go there, I imagine it would be on the proviso he doesn't grandstand and overshadow the event. Is he capable of that?  Surely he would explode.

[Niall C]

I don't mean to be disrespectful and certainly don't mean him harm but the first thing Trump has to do is stay alive. As far as I'm aware the Open venue has been allocated for the next five years and then Portrush is tipped for 2019 which suggests Turnberry might be back in by 2020 at the earliest. What age is he now, well into his 60's I think.

BTW, the deal for Turnberry went through yesterday and early reports are that true to form he's looking to rename it after himself.

Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

They haven't announced 2017 or 2018 yet. However Turnberry is probably the least profitable Open venue for the R&A as the location leads to the smallest crowds. So it is never going to be a place they go back to very quickly (contrast Hoylake, back after only eight years because of huge crowds in 2006). Trump would be 74 by 2020. He must be aware that a Balmedie Open is inconceivable in his lifetime unless he lives into his 90s - no way the R&A goes to a venue like that for a long, long time. So Turnberry gives him his best chance of hosting the Championship.

[Adam Clayman]

If one considers the Old course to be the most sophisticated form of gca, is it really a shock that a lot of people hated the look of Pinehurst #2 this last week?

I'll bet on the ground, it looked like an impressionist masterpiece.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well, you certainly can't argue with DT's success.

However, I find his aggressive branding rather...ahem...gauche and he is his own worst enemy IMO.
I love Turnberry. I have been there twice. I will more than likely never return now that he is the proprietor. Doonbeg is off my list now even though I was always skeptical about the golf course. Was last in Scotland in September and, while playing Castle Stuart, we contemplated a trip to see his new course. "Nah,", we all agreed, "Let's go play Dornoch again." Even our caddies at CS and RDGC were all lifting their leg on DT's new offering near Aberdeen.

I live in Chicago. There are many luxury hotels here. I have been to his new hotel once. I will not return. My professional peers all scoff at DT and his "cheese factor". If he just STFU for once and let the merits of his holdings speak for themselves, then I believe his market share would grow.

His price points at all of his properties means that he needs to attract a relatively affluent clientele with substantial discretionary income. Barking about Pinehurst makes him look like a rube, an ignorant peasant and a wanna-be with a chip on his shoulder. It cheapens his brand. Plus, here's a guy who is the hospitality business yet somehow he believes it to be smart business to publicly insult over 50% of the US population (who are Democrats).

If I was his boss, I would ask that he stick to property selection, financial structuring and strategy.
But, if he went to Twitter one more time (a coward's tool in this context, IMO), he would be fired.

[Charlie Gallagher]

     I guess I'm missing something, why do people say it looks so ugly? The bunkering is flashed up and natural looking with jagged edges. The sandy wastes are random looking and sprinkled with more than just wire grass. The corridors are wide. The greens and their surrounds don't show off as well on TV, but the way they play on TV exhibits their character and tendency to reject less than well struck shots, such as Phil's bunker shot on 9 on Sunday.
   So what am I missing? I've played it and it's monochromatic because of the pines and sand, but it isn't ugly. Strategically, it's beautiful.

[jeffwarne]

    I guess I'm missing something, why do people say it looks so ugly? The bunkering is flashed up and unnatural looking with jagged edges. The sandy wastes are random looking and sprinkled with more than just wire grass. The corridors are wide. The greens and their surrounds don't show off as well on TV, but the way they play on TV exhibits their character and tendency to reject less than well struck shots,  .
   So what am I missing? I've played it and it's monochromatic because of the pines and sand, but it isn't ugly. Strategically, it's beautiful.

are you describing Trump or Pinehurst?

[Greg Tallman]

Matt Ginella   >   Donald Trump


http://www.clubupgolf.com/2014/06/16/donald-trump-vs-mat-ginella/

Am I the only one who thinks this little back and forth is/was staged?

Trump was a cash cow for NBC for several years with The Apprentice shows. Ginella works for NBC. TV personalities don't just go around picking fights with big money, big name, big image NYC types.

Just sayin'...

[Paul Gray]

Ian,

Bloody good post.

Charlie,

The answer is all there in your description. Everything you describe is beautiful art to someone that appreciates what golf really is but it's a definition of ugliness if anything non formulaic makes your head hurt. That isn't to say that people are beyond hope but there's always a kick back when you expose people to something which makes them think outside of the box (forgive the expression but I simply couldn't think of a more apt one).
 

[Mac Plumart]

If one considers the Old course to be the most sophisticated form of gca, is it really a shock that a lot of people hated the look of Pinehurst #2 this last week?

I'll bet on the ground, it looked like an impressionist masterpiece.

I think you touch on a lot of great points here, Adam.

I agree with you and the sophistication of The Old Course. But yet not everyone loves it. Therefore, not everyone can appreciate the sophistication of the design. It is lost on them.

I think #2 is also a very sophisticated course. Perhaps those same people, who don't like The Old Course, don't appreciate Pinehurst either.

Mark B. Actually tells a great story about playing #2 the first few times and not really getting it and the. The light bulb went off and he fell head over heels for the course. That actually reminded me of the Bobby Jones story in regards to The Old Course...hating it and then Loving it when he finally "got" it.

Perhaps what he got is that quality architecture brings purposeful thought into focus prior to the striking of the ball, rather than focusing on the stereotypical look of a "manicured" golf course. And make no mistake a well manicured course is different from a properly maintained golf course. One might look pretty, like a garden, while the other is ideal for playing the game of golf.

[Nigel Islam]

Doesn't Trump already have the 2022 PGA?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Let's be honest, Trump's not the only one who harbors those thoughts about # 2.

Numerous people have approached me and made the same basic comments.

What golfers saw on TV this past weekend is an enormous departure from what they've been watching for the last few decades, so why the surprise when someone takes exception to the "new" look ?

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