[DMoriarty]

I love the renovation but I'm afraid JakaB is going to be right...

From Ran's "isn't this what we've been waiting for thread..."Back when I played as a civilian the rough was non-existant.  If you choose to play in the future expect the scruff to be worse than what you see today.  Just what we been waiting for, a course tougher for us than what was presented at the US Open."


Put it this way, I want to play #2 more now than I ever have before but I doubt it'll meet my expectations if I don't get there in the next couple of years.

I am not sure I buy the notion that the scruff will be "worse" in a few years than it is today.  I guess it is possible they will just let it go, but it seems like it would be much cheaper to keep it under control that it was to water it and mow it.  

Regardless, I don't think the average golfer will care if it is marginally easier or harder than what we are seeing on t.v. this week, because trying to play out of the scruff looks a hell of a lot more fun than hitting the same shot out of the rough again and again.   The scruff brings back the element of chance, and creates the possibility of recovery shots.   It is a great feeling when, after hitting your ball into the shit, you find that you lucked out into a good lie for a chance at recovery.  And it is even fun to have to occasionally try to extricate yourself from a bush or other horrible spot.  These things don't happen on courses insulated by uniform rough.  

[Greg Clark]

The course is playing gloriously on Saturday.  Well done.

[John Kavanaugh]

Reminds me of the NBA.

[John Kavanaugh]

Has the scruff changed where the spectators can view the action?  The look bunched up like herds of cattle.

[Mike Sweeney]

Other than my friend Jim Sullivan who obviously has never set his fancy country club shoes on the single line sprinkler system at Walnut Lane  

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/walnut-lane/

the renovation at Pinehurst seems to be a hit. Reality is, it takes money to do these renovations and some other good karma. I think you need:

• a sandy site
• not too much wind or exposure to wind
• money
• an ability to bring in new players/members because you will lose some

Here are my suggestions for other courses that should consider/could consider a Pinehurst style "Back to the Future" style renovation. They are:

1. Bethpage Black - It is Long Island, it is sandy, it is big, it is brawny.... Can't find an old picture but that is a sandy site. Get rid of the "old US Open" conditions.

2. Hollywood GC - The Doak Team work looks great, and I always enjoy playing there but please pull the old aerial off the wall of the Men's Locker Room. That was North Jersey Pine Valley back in the day....

3. Mountain Lake - Okay, so Streamsong is now the "no rough" Poster Child of Central Florida, and I have to include one course from the MacRaynor family.

I love playing all three of these courses, but I want more. Call me greedy  

Others?

Why does the site need to be sandy to be a candidate for less water?

My post did not address any water issues, from a less water perspective. I was focused on playability issues and maintenance issues in terms of sand blow out from wind, rain, and hurricanes.

It will be interesting to see what happens at Streamsong when it takes a direct hurricane hit. Mountain Lake really got crushed one summer by three hurricanes.

Jaka,

I am calling you on your BS. I think you would love playing the new-Pinehurst same as I think you liked most of Streamsong. You have very good hands around the green and you would smoke most amateurs on this set-up.

[John Kavanaugh]

I would love it. It's the double digit handicaps that want to play in under 5 hours that are going to hate it.  Now finding three friends who can afford it...

[DMoriarty]

Speak for yourself.   You don't know what you are talking about when it comes to double digit handicappers.

[Mike Sweeney]

I would love it. It's the double digit handicaps that want to play in under 5 hours that are going to hate it.  Now finding three friends who can afford it...

But this is always my argument about why Bethpage Black CAN be great as a public course. Both #2 and The Black are surrounded by other courses that double digits can play instead.

If Bitcoin gets to $1000, I am in. If it goes to $100, it is back to Southern Pines 

[Paul Gray]

I shouldn't worry about John's comments. Anything which threatens to challenge his American imperialist, nouveau riche mentality is always going to be tough for him to deal with. He's really juat another member of the herd.

[DMoriarty]

I would love it. It's the double digit handicaps that want to play in under 5 hours that are going to hate it.  Now finding three friends who can afford it...

But this is always my argument about why Bethpage Black CAN be great as a public course. Both #2 and The Black are surrounded by other courses that double digits can play instead.

Why?  It looks to me like double digits could have a great time on No. 2 provided they played the correct tee.  

[John Kavanaugh]

I do hope that no one honestly believes that pace of play will be improved by the inclusion of scruff in place of resort rough. In a couple of years  the scruff will be marked as a lateral hazard for resort play. Streamsong already recommends the same. A round at Pebble will be quicker until they bring out the stakes.

[DMoriarty]

Okay Nostradamus.  Whatever you say.

[Mike Sweeney]

Why?  It looks to me like double digits could have a great time on No. 2 provided they played the correct tee.  

That is not what I am saying. Specific to Bethpage, it is public facility and as such it needs to cater to the public clientele. Since there are 4 courses there that cater to 80% of golfers, they can test the limits with The Black, i.e. no carts and superior and testing design.

Pinehurst and #2 are a different formula, but being surrounded by other courses allow weaker players to play the other courses if #2 is too much for them. I am guessing that most of their players are on 3-4 day trips.....

[DMoriarty]

I guess I see what you are saying, but a big difference for me is that narrow fairways and deep rough make BPB a death march for non-masochistic higher handicap golfers.   In contrast, No2 looks like it would be a blast to play for golfers of any level.   Wouldn't the place be even more appealing if they took the other courses in the same direction setup and maintenance-wise?

[John Kavanaugh]

For public play the rough at Riviera and #2 used to play the same. Would you want the rough at Riviera replaced with scruff for everyday play?

[Paul Gray]

I see 80 year old women play links golf without any problems. Firm and fast suits anyone thay can't fly a ball these days or can't see too well to search in thick grass.

Like I said, ignore John. Money can't buy the stuff he lacks.

[Mike Sweeney]

I guess I see what you are saying, but a big difference for me is that narrow fairways and deep rough make BPB a death march for non-masochistic higher handicap golfers.   In contrast, No2 looks like it would be a blast to play for golfers of any level.   Wouldn't the place be even more appealing if they took the other courses in the same direction setup and maintenance-wise?

Partner, you get the Matt Ward Reading Comprehension Award for that post! See the opening post.....

[DMoriarty]

That hurts, Mike.   I'd love to play BPB with wider fairways and less nasty rough. 

[Ed Brzezowski]

Rated Walnut Lane  Wednesday, very green. Lots if pull arts.

[John Kavanaugh]

I do love how they are keeping the gallery away from the players. Makes for a very enjoyable tournament to watch.

[Mike_Young]

My bet is that women's play at resort takes a hit on #2 in the next few years ....I like the look but not as practical to maintain as the marketing efforts are saying...

[Keith Phillips]

No comment on the watering, but I as a 15 (i.e. mid-double digit) I was pleasantly surprised by the playability of #2 a few weeks back.  I hit the ball terribly but scored 92 - not proud of it  but would note that for a higher-handicap golfer the course is a blast - just about impossible to lose a ball - also impossible to hold a green at my level, but easy to recover with a bunted hybrid.  I went to Pinehurst with high expectations and they were exceeded.

[Paul Gray]

Keith,

You 'hold' the green by running the ball onto it. Anything else would be foolish.

I am genuinely shocked at just how alien proper golf is to so many in the tree house. I thought most had played the game outside of America on the some of the great courses of the world but seemingly not.

[Mike Sweeney]

I am genuinely shocked at just how alien proper golf is to so many in the tree house. I thought most had played the game outside of America on the some of the great courses of the world but seemingly not.

Paul,

Okay okay, the Midwest dudes have never seen the Atlantic Ocean but they have American spirit.

I am not from the Midwest, want to rumble?  

Let's see your "Top 5 Most Unique" courses versus me, and if I lose, then John Morrissett. "Proper Golf" gets boring too, imo.   When is "The Open Championship" going to take a risk and play on Heath?

[Bill_McBride]

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