[Patrick_Mucci]

JakaB,

I think you have to separate the "golf course" from the "resort".

The "resort" is a "for profit" entity.

They charge what they feel the market will bear, ditto Pebble Beach, Spyglass, Spanish Bay, Bandon, Kohler and Streamsong.

You can't equate a resort course which tends to be a package deal, with a local golf club.

[Paul Gray]

Nope, still no explanation as to why finding a ball in the scruff will take longer than finding it in knee deep, thick rough.

And I'm unaware of Pinehurst increasing their green fees solely on the back of the regeneration but, regardless, why green fees will increase at ever muni on the planet because an outlier sends out a signal that they need not emulate the garden lawn junkies down the road is, I happily concede, beyond me.

[John Kavanaugh]

JakaB,

I think you have to separate the "golf course" from the "resort".

The "resort" is a "for profit" entity.

They charge what they feel the market will bear, ditto Pebble Beach, Spyglass, Spanish Bay, Bandon, Kohler and Streamsong.

You can't equate a resort course which tends to be a package deal, with a local golf club.

Yes and you can't play it without resort guests. Now the pros are starting to skull shots. Like I said earlier, rounds longer than at Pebble. Not what I wanted to see golf call progress.

Who knows, maybe they will flatten the greens next to improve pace of play. That makes more corporate sense than admitting this renovation was a mistake. Original Ross greens...That's the ticket.

[DMoriarty]

Also no explanation as to how wider fairways mean slower play.  

[John Kavanaugh]

After you finish the second green at old Pinehurst everything besides the greens became moot. Now you just got more visuals and more different recoveries.  It is now a sensory overload leading to an inevitable parade of bound up zombies.

The width for resort play by resort golfers was not increased...period. It was actually reduced. 

[DMoriarty]

Except that the aerial images indicate that the fairway width has been increased.

[John Kavanaugh]

Except that the aerial images indicate that the fairway width has been increased.

Wow. If you buy a bigger soup bowl and turn it upside down you get less soup.

Oh and Johnny just called for redoing the finest greens in the country. Have I ever been wrong?

[Paul Gray]

After you finish the second green at old Pinehurst everything besides the greens became moot. Now you just got more visuals and more different recoveries.  It is now a sensory overload leading to an inevitable parade of bound up zombies......

So restoring a course is a mistake if it makes it more stimulating. Brilliant!

Note to the R&A: Simplify TOC and you'll get 'em round quicker!

[Greg Tallman]

Except that the aerial images indicate that the fairway width has been increased.

Wow. If you buy a bigger soup bowl and turn it upside down you get less soup.

Oh and Johnny just called for redoing the finest greens in the country. Have I ever been wrong?

So now Johnny Miller has a clue? Typical tour player whining nothing more.

[John Kavanaugh]

After you finish the second green at old Pinehurst everything besides the greens became moot. Now you just got more visuals and more different recoveries.  It is now a sensory overload leading to an inevitable parade of bound up zombies......

So restoring a course is a mistake if it makes it more stimulating. Brilliant!

Note to the R&A: Simplify TOC and you'll get 'em round quicker!

They did not restore the course, they restored the scruff. That is a very important issue.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JakaB,

I think you have to separate the "golf course" from the "resort".

The "resort" is a "for profit" entity.

They charge what they feel the market will bear, ditto Pebble Beach, Spyglass, Spanish Bay, Bandon, Kohler and Streamsong.

You can't equate a resort course which tends to be a package deal, with a local golf club.

Yes and you can't play it without resort guests. Now the pros are starting to skull shots. Like I said earlier, rounds longer than at Pebble. Not what I wanted to see golf call progress.

Who knows, maybe they will flatten the greens next to improve pace of play. That makes more corporate sense than admitting this renovation was a mistake. Original Ross greens...That's the ticket.

JakaB,

How can you advocate for greens that you've never seen ?

How do you know how each green today differs from the greens in 1964, 1954, 1944, 1934 and 1924 ?

Weren't Pinehurst's original greens sand greens ?

[DMoriarty]

Only thing less interesting than the runaway leaderboard is Kavanaugh's endless trolling. 

I'm embarrassed to have been drawn in.

[Paul Gray]

David,

Whilst perceived wisdom is to not feed them, I always think a little reasoned dismantling is in order first.

[Sean_A]

I haven't played Pinehurst, but I am not sure Paul should give up his position so easily.   These guys would rather play through the air, and the conditions this week have allowed for it.  But that doesn't mean it is the only option.  Best shot I've seen hit all week was by Aaron Baddeley on Thursday on 15.  Swung easy, hit well short of the green, and ran the ball up to a pin no one could access through the air.  I get that the greens are crowned, but crowned greens are a nightmare for higher handicap players attempting aerial shots.  There is no margin of error, and an aerial shot hitting on the side of a crown green can bound into real trouble.  Playing on the ground is challenging, but for higher handicap player such shots are sometimes easier to control, and they have much less down side.  Even when the greens are crowned.

D

I tend to agree, but at some point variety must be a worthy goal.  I do happen to think if the pros knuckled down they could have some success with runners, but asis nearly always the case, there is a far higher chance of success by playing thru the air.  The pros know this, you know this.  If we want to talk about hackers, sure, most should keep it down and hope for the best.  Still, I see an issue with variety.  That said, if folks like #2 great, but no matter how much Ran and otehrs wax poetically about the course you wpn't catch me paying $400 to see the reno when everybody knows #2 is mainly about the greens.  Been there, seen that, didn't buy a t-shirt.  Like Brian, I found the greens too similar.  To me, crowned greens are an extreme type of design to be employed sparingly and that is just what I think Ross did.  I don't buy for a second that Ross designed all these crowned greens and I think DWiii's photos aptly demonstrate that.  What I would like to know is which greens were crowned by original design.   

Ciao

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