[Peter Pallotta]

It took a while for this to sink in, and I'm guessing others have already seen it/figured it out. But with the renovation/restoration looking so good, and with the notion of a "rough-less" US Open so appealing, and with Mike Davis so well regarded as an outside the box USGA thinker, and with C&C having such respectful attitudes towards Pinehurst and Ross, it only just dawned on me that the "price" for this historically-lovely looking course and for a less prescribed championship test and for some USGA-styled outside the box thinking is that we're at Par 70 course that is 7500+ yards long - at sea level!  Yikes! Having the pros come into most Par 4s with mid-long irons is one thing; having them come into those Pinehurst greens with mid-long irons is another. Now, I'm not against that necessarily -- with all the technological advances, today's pros might be experiencing the course pretty much as their counterparts did in the 30s/40s, i.e. as one tough son of a gun. I'm just saying that the reality of this US Open being played at a 7500 yard, Par 70 course kind of slipped by me amidst the virtually unanimous praise for the course and for the work of everyone involved in its renewal, from Davis to C&C. Just saying...

Peter 

[Ronald Montesano]

what makes you think they'll be coming in with mid/long irons? fast and furious, errr, firm, my friend.

have you ever compressed any iron like a pro does? i haven't?

i hope that you have played p2. if so, revisit the lines you took on your tee balls. they will not resemble any (save the par 3 holes) that the pros/contenders will take.

a golfer on my team just played bethpage black at 7000 yard on Sunday in the state fed tournament. he had an eagle putt. he came into the 5th hole with a sand wedge after bombing his drive.

there is no yardage figure that surprises me, not when it comes to the greatest athletes to ever play the game.

[Scott Warren]

Peter,

I was browsing the Pinehurst #2 hole-by-hole the other day and saw there is only two par fours (as an aside, I really wish the plural of "par four" was "pars four", much more enjoyable to say!) under 400 yards and one par three under 200, and it's only nine yards shy of 200.

If I'm honest, I love the visuals of thee renovated/restored #2 but am curious to see how it plays this week as I'm not convinced it looks all that great or fun to play.

[Jud_T]

Peter,

I was browsing the Pinehurst #2 hole-by-hole the other day and saw there is only two par fours (as an aside, I really wish the plural of "par four" was "pars four", much more enjoyable to say!) under 400 yards and one par three under 200, and it's only nine yards shy of 200.

If I'm honest, I love the visuals of thee renovated/restored #2 but am curious to see how it plays this week as I'm not convinced it looks all that great or fun to play.

Scott,

They have 5 sets of tees between 5200 and 7500.  I'd image that any US Open setup from the tips wouldn't be much fun for any of us.

[jeffwarne]

a golfer on my team just played bethpage black at 7000 yard on Sunday in the state fed tournament. he had an eagle putt. he came into the 5th hole with a sand wedge after bombing his drive.

there is no yardage figure that surprises me, not when it comes to the greatest athletes to ever play the game.

Ron,
The kid is a better athlete than 3 sport star Jack Nicklaus?
or just better equipped

[Matthew Sander]

If I'm honest, I love the visuals of thee renovated/restored #2 but am curious to see how it plays this week as I'm not convinced it looks all that great or fun to play.

Scott,

I certainly can see your POV regarding the 7500+ yard course. However, last summer, I played one tee up at 6900+ and it was extremely playable. With the firm conditions, the course played considerably shorter than the yardage. Not once did it feel like a brutishly long golf course, but it was a brutish golf course.

The only thing missing, for me, was a really short par 3. I think 17 was the shortest the day we played, because 9 had the extreme back left hole location. I'm partial to at least one shorty, but that is only personal preference. The par threes are very good and have some of the best, most difficult greens on the course.

[Ronald Montesano]

Ron,
The kid is a better athlete than 3 sport star Jack Nicklaus?
or just better equipped

Jeff, mi amigo.

I was not referencing the kid, but rather the PGA Tour pros.

Yes, today's golfers are better athletes than Jack Nicklaus or anyone else, ever was. Jack was a fat dude, all of 5'11". He wasn't a star at the other two, like he was at golf. He played them well, but not great. He didn't get scholarship offers to play hoops or...what was the third sport again?

I'd put Dustin Johnson up against him in any of the three sports and take home all the money. And there are more DJs today than there have ever been.

[Scott Warren]

Does it play with more shotmaking variety than appears through photos and yardages?

While exacting and fun to try, is there much variety in the greenside recoveries, especially shot type?

If I had to pinpoint my hesitation re: Pinehurst #2, it's not outright length, but lack of variety.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Peter,

To a great degree I've accepted that length isn't the impediment to the best golfers in the world, that it used to be.

When kids are hitting it 300+, what's a 500 yard par 4, Drive 5-6 iron

[DMoriarty]

Looking at the scorecard yardages, it seems a little silly, with par 4s of 529, 528, 507, 502, 484, 483, 473,  and 451. What is even sillier is that, unless there is major wind or unless they are missing fairways, the distances won't pose much of a problem.

[Jim Nugent]

I was not referencing the kid, but rather the PGA Tour pros.

Yes, today's golfers are better athletes than Jack Nicklaus or anyone else, ever was. Jack was a fat dude, all of 5'11". He wasn't a star at the other two, like he was at golf. He played them well, but not great. He didn't get scholarship offers to play hoops or...what was the third sport again?

I'd put Dustin Johnson up against him in any of the three sports and take home all the money. And there are more DJs today than there have ever been.

Dustin may be better than Jack in every sport -- except the one that really counts here. 

Perhaps golf is becoming more athletic: I'm too far removed from it to really get a sense.  At best this is a slow evolutionary change though: 60-year old Tom Watson nearly won the most prestigious event in the world, and the best athlete on tour doesn't come close to dominating it. 

[Jim Nugent]

Looking at the scorecard yardages, it seems a little silly, with par 4s of 529, 528, 507, 502, 484, 483, 473,  and 451. What is even sillier is that, unless there is major wind or unless they are missing fairways, the distances won't pose much of a problem.

Wonder what clubs the golfers in the Open will hit into those greens? 

[Michael Tamburrini]

Looking at the scorecard yardages, it seems a little silly, with par 4s of 529, 528, 507, 502, 484, 483, 473,  and 451. What is even sillier is that, unless there is major wind or unless they are missing fairways, the distances won't pose much of a problem.

How long would a par 4 need to be in order for length to become a problem??  I mean, the 18th at Merion was a drive and 1 iron for Hogan.  For Nicklaus there were plenty of par 4s which required a good drive and then a long iron second shot.  How long would a par 4 have to be in order for McIlroy (for example) to be required to hit a drive and, say, a 3 iron second? 

[Paul Gray]

So we now have the golf course back, just need to adjust the ball to fit the field of play.

[Richard Hetzel]

Looking at the scorecard yardages, it seems a little silly, with par 4s of 529, 528, 507, 502, 484, 483, 473,  and 451. What is even sillier is that, unless there is major wind or unless they are missing fairways, the distances won't pose much of a problem.

Wonder what clubs the golfers in the Open will hit into those greens? 

Which will be near impossible to really tell since most tour pros' irons have stronger lofts then ours do.....Anyone who hits the ball in the 270's now will be challenged by those yardages. On a side note, the course looks great and I am looking forward to seeing it on TV...

[Jud_T]

Looking at the scorecard yardages, it seems a little silly, with par 4s of 529, 528, 507, 502, 484, 483, 473,  and 451. What is even sillier is that, unless there is major wind or unless they are missing fairways, the distances won't pose much of a problem.

How long would a par 4 need to be in order for length to become a problem??  I mean, the 18th at Merion was a drive and 1 iron for Hogan.  For Nicklaus there were plenty of par 4s which required a good drive and then a long iron second shot.  How long would a par 4 have to be in order for McIlroy (for example) to be required to hit a drive and, say, a 3 iron second?  

Well if he drives it 310 and hits a 3 iron 260 that would be 570.  Add in firm and fast fairways and you're pushing 600.

[Richard Hetzel]

Coore and Crenshaw are almost going through the course hole by hole, and they said, "This is Ross' course NOT ours.." Agreed for the most part, but what about the extra 1000 (give or take) yards???

[jeffwarne]

So we now have the golf course back, just need to adjust the ball to fit the field of play.

Paul,
Don't you know by now we adjust the field of play, rather than the ball, to fit 1% and let everyone else walk farther as their reward for being part of the machine that supports so many.

7500 on firm and fast isn't long for these guys anyway, though I'm hearing a lot about pinched areas in the longer driving zones.

Course certainly is attractive on TV-looks a bit like Palmetto pre irrigation(when no one played there ), though Palmetto didn't have a lot of wire grass in my lifetime

[Ronald Montesano]

Would we have had the restoration of so many courses, the development of Bandon, Cabot and other destinations, if "the machine" did not exist?

Jim Nugent, designer of the esteemed Phoenix Links, DJ is still a better golf athlete than Jack was, but Jack is clearly the greater champion.

Jeff Warne, beacon of light at TB, as long as the greens aren't relocated next to those way back tees, we commoners are fine. Let the Tpros walk/be shuttled back a hectare or two to the tips.

As for me, as long as we keep getting restorations, the machine can keep churning.

[jeffwarne]

Would we have had the restoration of so many courses, the development of Bandon, Cabot and other destinations, if "the machine" did not exist?

Jim Nugent, designer of the esteemed Phoenix Links, DJ is still a better golf athlete than Jack was, but Jack is clearly the greater champion.

Jeff Warne, beacon of light at TB, as long as the greens aren't relocated next to those way back tees, we commoners are fine. Let the Tpros walk/be shuttled back a hectare or two to the tips.

As for me, as long as we keep getting restorations, the machine can keep churning.

Fair enough,
however, fix the ball and you can have an actual restoration.
Remember you still have to play behind players who walk BACK to back tees, who hunt longer for their ever expensive premium ball, and more often because it is not fit for the corridors of play, which are RARELY expanded proportionately to the extended field of play.
Signed,
a very dim beacon who is not winning his own battle for widened corridors of findability in a very exposed enviroment(see LI Open scores with minimal wind)

[Ronald Montesano]

Fair enough,
however, fix the ball and you can have an actual restoration.
Remember you still have to play behind players who walk BACK to back tees, who hunt longer for their ever expensive premium ball, and more often because it is not fit for the corridors of play, which are RARELY expanded proportionately to the extended firld of play.
Signed,
a very dim beacon who is not winning his own battle for widened corridors of findability(see LI Open scores)

Now it's my turn to agree with you. Proportionate width is critical and rarely attainable. I know that modernists might ask, who are we to say what proper vertical and horizontal spaces are? Sorry to hear that TB is not widening as it needs. Hopefully the membership will see the light of your dim beacon.

[Kyle Casella]

There is an interesting quote on the top of geoffshackelford.com, from Pete Dye:

"When Mr. Ross designed the course, he planned on the professional golfer hitting a four or five iron to the upside-down saucer-shaped green at the 396-yard first hole. If Mr. Ross crawled out of his grave and watched Tour players hit nine irons to the first green, he would immediately move the tee back fifty yards back into the parking lot. When he finished the course, he had no idea it would be labeled subtle. The subtleties have come after his death, owing to the advances in golf ball and club technology."

However, I do think the homogeneity of the par 3's is a bit dull. Just because a hole is short doesn't mean it has to be easy. I wonder what the scoring average at Pebble for #7 in the 2010 US Open was.

[Jud_T]

Coore and Crenshaw are almost going through the course hole by hole, and they said, "This is Ross' course NOT ours.." Agreed for the most part, but what about the extra 1000 (give or take) yards???

Trick Question-  So what percentage of the $410 (?) green fee is from the extra 1000 yards?

[Brent Hutto]

Coore and Crenshaw are almost going through the course hole by hole, and they said, "This is Ross' course NOT ours.." Agreed for the most part, but what about the extra 1000 (give or take) yards???

Trick Question-  So what percentage of the $410 (?) green fee is from the extra 1000 yards?

And further, do I get a discount if I promise only to use 5,900 yards of the original course?

[Mike Hendren]

Interesting bit last night on The Golf Channel.  Players are concerned about a Dustin Johnson /  Whistling Straits scenario as the bunkers often seamlessly transition into the native sands.   Coore, Crenshaw and the talking heads surprisingly stumbled and bumbled through the discussion without an answer (simple really - when in doubt don't ground your club) until Chamblee bailed them out with a separate question.  Frankly, it was embarrassing.

Bogey

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()