[Tommy Williamsen]

I can understand 10 minute tee times on the TOUR on Wednesday and Thursday. I wonder why the TOUR hasn't tried 12 minute times on the weekend.  At my home club we have 12 minute times and we all get around in 4:00. I know some public courses have 8 minute tee times.  All that does is jam up the course.  Does the interval between tee times make a difference?

[BCowan]

No, I don't.  The private course i grew up on had times every 8 or 9 minutes and people played in 4 or less.  Sunday afternoon could be 415.  Public courses could have 20 min intervals and they would be slow imho.  Tommy, you should try a case study at your club and see if round times change.  I don't think it is fair to compare pro/club play. 

[John Cowden]

In today's public golf world, where the tenet of "take all the time you need to hit your shot, but be ready to hit your shot when it's your turn", is only dimly understood, if at all  a longer time between tee times does help pace of play.   But not as much as it might, given that dim understanding.

[Tommy Williamsen]

There would seem be a point of diminishing returns. I have played a four hour round with 9 minute tee times.  We just waited for the group in front of us a lot. The round seemed longer.  There is far less waiting at 12 minutes.  I wonder if there has been a study done.  I do know that 8 minute tee times courses are jammed up. At 12 minutes they are not.
The pro game is certainly different that club play but I wonder what would happen if tee times were stretched out.

[John Kavanaugh]

No, I don't.  The private course i grew up on had times every 8 or 9 minutes and people played in 4 or less.  Sunday afternoon could be 415.  Public courses could have 20 min intervals and they would be slow imho.  Tommy, you should try a case study at your club and see if round times change.  I don't think it is fair to compare pro/club play. 

It is ruder than hell to tee off early and start pushing a group before they even reach the first green.

[Sean_A]

Tee time spacing is not just about a 4 hour game.  It is also about trying to provide a good day for the golfers.  It seems senseless to push out groups at a pace that will not work.  So a balance needs to be struck.  Ideally, I would like the group ahead to be have finished the 1st before teeing off - assuming they don't run into problems with lost balls.  That sort of spacing is quite rare though.  But if I am paying big money I expect the club/resort to go the extra mile in making my day count.   

Ciao 

[Adrian_Stiff]

UK Standard is
6 minute intervals 2 ball
7 minute intervals 3 ball
8 minute intervals 4 ball

Some people are slower and that is the problem not really anything else.

Those times are meant to be how long it takes for a group to be clear from the time they drive, walk to their ball, play their next shot and be clear for the next group.

An extra two minute interval is worth NADA if the group in front are slow. Slow usually means ..they take more care, hence the slowest players in 2014 are usually the better players.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Slow usually means ..they take more care, hence the slowest players in 2014 are usually the better players.

Wow there Adrian


I can accept that today the best players are (usually) careful AND therefore slow.   And at the top of the game fast players are coached to slow down so they don't get frustrated by the pace of others, but I think you are giving to much credence to this as a reason for slow play and the relationship is different.


I can introduce you to plenty of slow payers. I couldn't even say that more than 50% of them  are any more careful than the norm for their club. They just fiddle and faff and have no regard for their partners who have to watch them and the field who wait behind. In my experience slow players waste most time between shots, not as they prepare to hit - and yes I've played with a few guys who insist on 8 practice swings and plumb bob from front and back each time.  


At least the better players hit fewer shots and many move quickly to the ball.


"If you're going to miss, miss it quick" Lee Trevino.






Tommy there is a guy who's studied all this and there's a very good interview on here.  Now who can remember his name?

[Thomas Dai]

Tee time interval for competitions or in general play?

Private member clubs or pay-n-play?

At my private members clubs it's 10-min intervals in formal competitions - which works very well - and no start sheet or decreed interval for general/casual play. One of the benefits of membership at a private club - know or enquire when it's likely to be quiet, turn up and play.

Pay-n-plays or popular private venues/biggies would be different.

atb

[Jon Wiggett]

I would have thought it depends on the starting hole. Par 3 or short par 5 will require longer intervals but a mid length par 4 8 to 10 minutes should be fine. IMO the tee time interval has no effect on speed of play.

Jon

[BCowan]

No, I don't.  The private course i grew up on had times every 8 or 9 minutes and people played in 4 or less.  Sunday afternoon could be 415.  Public courses could have 20 min intervals and they would be slow imho.  Tommy, you should try a case study at your club and see if round times change.  I don't think it is fair to compare pro/club play. 

It is ruder than hell to tee off early and start pushing a group before they even reach the first green.

Nobody pushes anybody, everyone who plays early moves with a purpose (At private courses for the most part). 

[jeffwarne]

My favorite is when 3 groups show up at exactly the same time on an otherwise empty course.
Nobody goes straight to the tee because they have to have their obligatory 1 hour warmup.
Then they all RACE for the first tee, hit immediately when the group in front is just out of range, and wait on EVERY shot, while playing at the exact same pace as the group in front.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Slow usually means ..they take more care, hence the slowest players in 2014 are usually the better players.

Wow there Adrian


I can accept that today the best players are (usually) careful AND therefore slow.   And at the top of the game fast players are coached to slow down so they don't get frustrated by the pace of others, but I think you are giving to much credence to this as a reason for slow play and the relationship is different.


I can introduce you to plenty of slow payers. I couldn't even say that more than 50% of them  are any more careful than the norm for their club. They just fiddle and faff and have no regard for their partners who have to watch them and the field who wait behind. In my experience slow players waste most time between shots, not as they prepare to hit - and yes I've played with a few guys who insist on 8 practice swings and plumb bob from front and back each time.  


At least the better players hit fewer shots and many move quickly to the ball.


"If you're going to miss, miss it quick" Lee Trevino.






Tommy there is a guy who's studied all this and there's a very good interview on here.  Now who can remember his name?

Bad players can be slow also. You won't find many quick good golfers (hcp 3 or better), especially amongst the under 40s.

[Adam Lawrence]

Tommy there is a guy who's studied all this and there's a very good interview on here.  Now who can remember his name?

Bill Yates. www.pacemanager.com

[Thomas Dai]

Yes Jeff, I know what you mean. I also find it somewhat amusing that some retired folk always insist on playing on the same busy mid-week day when the days either side are usually dead quiet.
atb

PS - wasn't it George Duncan, 1920 Open Champion, who coined the 'miss it quick' phrase?

[Jerry Kluger]

There is a very simple fact that makes professional golfers so slow - they feel no obligation to play their shot as soon as it is their turn. This is especially true in putting.  Just watch today and see how many players begin looking over their putt when it is their turn to play.  And then their routines are insanely long. I know Jim Furyk is a nice guy but two weeks ago it was beyond the absurd when he knew they were about to blow the horn for a rain delay and he was on 18 and ran his putt by the hole about 2 1/2 feet and could not bring himself to simply knock the putt in and had to go through his entire routine and they blew the horn so he had to wait until after the weather delay to finish the 18th hole.

[Michael Felton]

At Bethpage, the Black is the longest and hardest course and you are not allowed carts, but they have nine minute intervals and an empty time every hour. The other courses have 8 minute intervals and no empty times and carts are allowed. For the most part, a round on Black is the quickest one out there. Maybe that's a function of walking and not riding, but I think more likely it's because the tee times are better spaced.

[Paul Gray]

Tommy there is a guy who's studied all this and there's a very good interview on here.  Now who can remember his name?

Bill Yates. www.pacemanager.com

Well done Adam.

Reading through this I was about to do the same thing. Facts can be very awkward in debate though. 

[Jim Tang]

Back in the late 90's I worked as a starter at a public golf course outside Chicago for a numer of summers.  The first few years the spacing between tee times was 7 minutes.  The course was constantly jammed up and rounds routinely were close to 5 hrs.  Brutal.  Then, management decided to move to 9 minute intervals.  There was a huge difference.  Pace of play quickened and guys were playing sub 4 hour rounds in the early morning and 4 hour 15 minute rounds by mid-morning/early afternoon.

With 9 minute intervals, I literally had to stand on the tee in front of groups to prevent them from teeing off until it was their time.  As soon as the group ahead had cleared the fairway and were on their way to the green, the next group wanted to tee off.  I usually had to hold them 2 or 3 more minutes, with an empty fairway.  Guys would always ask why they couldn't tee off because "we can't reach them."

It's not about staying ahead of the group behind you, it's about keeping up with the group in front of you.  If everyone did that, pace of play would be much better.

I don't think pace of play will ever be reasonable on the PGA Tour, no matter how many minutes are between groups.  In many cases, guys are playing for their cards and trying to make a check and almost no one ever gets penalized for slow play.  If slow play was penalized with strokes, on a regular basis, for everyone, pace would speed up.  But, I can't see the PGA Tour really ever doing that.

[Dan Herrmann]

What are these things you call "tee times"?  I know not about what you speak

Honestly, not having tee times is one of the BEST things about where I play.

[Matt Day]

As a busy public facility we operate on 8 minute intervals on weekends with a reserved tee time every hour on each course.Like Jim mentioned in his post each group is called to the tee which stops the "early starters", this helps greatly in maintaining a steady pace of play.

The issue for us is that someone can book a tee time who has never played, hire a set of clubs and away they go. Our challenge is getting those players around at a decent pace without pushing them too hard.

[Mike McGuire]

What are these things you call "tee times"?  I know not about what you speak

Honestly, not having tee times is one of the BEST things about where I play.

No tee times is a cool gig if you can do it.  It's what we do,at West Bend CC and it works.

I think the reason is if we had tee times people would tend to hoard them.  Saturday at 8:00 am etc let's play.  I think you get less play with no tee times. 

[Wade Whitehead]

Tommy:

I'm afraid that twelve-minute tee times on Tour would make no difference.  Tour players don't take 5+ hours because they are waiting on the group in front of them.  They take 5+ hours because they are slow.

WW

[JMEvensky]

.  I think you get less play with no tee times. 

  Why do you think this? Because with tee times, people make more "formal" plans to play in a particular group at a particular time?

[Adrian_Stiff]

I watched a foursomes team match yesterday. One player took over 4 minutes on a 60 foot putt (was a slopey green) from the time he marked his ball to striking the putt. On two other occasions the same player was over 2 minutes from the time his opponent hit his tee shot to the time he hit his. Our team said others (all young players) were very very slow. It strikes me things will get worse not better.

I have never ever understood the greatness of saying we have no tee times....to me its like saying we are a stupid golf club.

If you have tee times the people can book up knowing they are going to play at a certain time, they can plan their round at quieter times, you can arrange for your guest to play at a certain time. Time is important people do not want to waste it.

With no tee times you might just get behind some slow players that you did not know were there. You might bring your guest to the club and have to wait an hour (nice start). A good tee sheet booking system can improve the flow of play with multiple tee starts. Booking tee times means you can monitor who plays which is essential for administration.

There is nothing wrong with just turning up and taking a chance, but you can do that with a tee booking system.

Clubs that just have turn up and not wired up right.

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