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BCowan

single irrigation lines
« on: June 07, 2014, 09:35:45 PM »
Will they make a comeback?  We know #2 has gone to single, but what about other non sandy sites?  Also looking forward to the ''Greenkeeping'' portion of ''Best of Golf''.

Mike Sweeney

Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2014, 09:43:48 PM »
I would hope not.

Golf is not meant to be played in a straight line. If you are going to have irrigation, do it right. I would be totally fine with no irrigation, new course.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2014, 09:44:10 PM »
It would be a sea change if it happened.  Most irrigation designers and superintendents want as many rows of irrigation as their club can possibly pay for.  The sales pitch is, how can we expect them to maintain the course in perfect condition if we don't give them the best possible tools?

BCowan

Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2014, 10:07:57 PM »
I remember when I was around 15 years old, the course I grew up on was deciding to put in a duel system in early-mid 90's.  I asked my friends dad who I'd respected his opinion and he used to be a club pro in his younger days what he thought.  He said he was for it due to he didn't want his miss to go in a worse spot than the rough.  Now looking back on it, I think he was implying Xmas(evergreens) trees that were planted in many areas on the course in its early days.  Being that I don't like many trees on the course and that is the minority view, what tree specimen a course has and its function on a course is very important imho.  I can see how some things can cross over and overlap.   

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2014, 10:19:59 PM »
Back in the mid 70s I joined Tualatin. The first six holes were a collection of straight holes. They were either bounded by 75' douglas fir trees or OB. Actually the entire course was very tight It had a single irrigation system. At the time I was pretty inaccurate and during summer the hooked and sliced shots seemed to pick up speed as they hit the really dry grass. It was easy to be 50-75 yards off line. The conditions separated golfers into two groups, a small cadre of the very accurate who were vastly outnumbered by the rest.

When the vote on a new irrigation system was taken, it was such a fait accompli that pipe-laying construction began early the next morning.

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2014, 02:31:16 AM »
I recall one of my clubs in the early 80's had an irrigation guy. He'd take the tractor in the evening and hook together aluminium pipes to irrigate a section of fairway. At that rate I think they were irrigating about a couple fairways a week.

The other club had none. None of the greens were fronted by hazards at either course, so you could bump shots in during the dry summer months. Looking back, it was a blessing.

In Europe, water usage is an issue, and some courses don't have fairway irrigation. For the 4 to 8 weeks they may need it to keep the grass green (the roots are still alive), is it worth the cost? One benefit is it doesn't get abused if it isn't installed.

The US is a different animal.

It will be interesting to see what impact Pinehurst makes on the irrigation front, if any.


Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2014, 02:38:17 AM »
Mike,

single irrigation does not mean a straight line you can have side branches. As Tony says, here in Europe water usage is a big topic though I would have thought that in the US in certain places that would also be the case. I would imagine that long term will see the reduction of irrigation water use and a return to un-irrigated fairways here in the UK and some other parts of Europe.

Jon

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2014, 04:30:33 AM »
June 8th and we have not switched a sprinkler on yet.

If a fairway is narrow enough (say 25 yards) in the UK certainly you can get away with single row. I am not sure you can get away with it 10 degrees further south.

With most fairways being more in the 35 yard width you need double. Single row v Double row is totally about cost.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2014, 04:41:57 AM »
Adrian,

in the UK you can get away with no irrigation on the course. I spent three weeks searching for my irrigation heads at the start of the season before I gave up having not found any. How I laughed when I remembered I hadn't installed one ;D

Whilst I can see the possible need for green irrigation in some instances most courses would have better all year playing conditions without any. It is the ability to know when not to use it that makes the difference and one that many GKs and nearly all club committees do not have. It is nice to hear that you/your set up is so enlightened.

Having played a well regarded course midweek with irrigation and then mine yesterday I was happy to conclude that although the formers greens might have looked better (greener) to the layman's eye mine were the better 'playing' surface.

Jon

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2014, 04:55:01 AM »

"June 8th and we have not switched a sprinkler on yet."

Adrian,

Yippee!

Not only have you got the Waterside course but now there's yet another reason for me to visit just north of Bristol.

"Whilst I can see the possible need for green irrigation in some instances most courses would have better all year playing conditions without any. It is the ability to know when not to use it that makes the difference and one that many GKs and nearly all club committees do not have. It is nice to hear that you/your set up is so enlightened.
Having played a well regarded course midweek with irrigation and then mine yesterday I was happy to conclude that although the formers greens might have looked better (greener) to the layman's eye mine were the better 'playing' surface."


Jon,

Beautifully written and spot on too.

atb

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2014, 06:42:56 AM »
I should point out we have about 1000 sprinklers. It has just been non stop rain so not needed.

Greenside irrigation is 100% essential in the South of England. Rest I think you can get away with, but it all depends on your standards.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2014, 07:14:54 AM »
I don't know if "number of rows" is the best way to describe simple irrigation.  I would think more like "# of heads".  Anyway, I just finished a system in Latin America which completely pissed off the distributor.  I place 4 heads on the greens with a valve and one on each tee.  Everything else was quick couplers.  The entire system was gravity feed form a tank 240 feet above the highest part of the course.  It works for a few reasons:
1.  labor is $1.25 per hour
2.  it doesn't break and have to wait on parts and no wires
3.  it rains six months of the year and the system is never turned on


"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tom Bacsanyi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2014, 02:12:02 PM »
I don't know if "number of rows" is the best way to describe simple irrigation.  I would think more like "# of heads".  Anyway, I just finished a system in Latin America which completely pissed off the distributor.  I place 4 heads on the greens with a valve and one on each tee.  Everything else was quick couplers.  The entire system was gravity feed form a tank 240 feet above the highest part of the course.  It works for a few reasons:
1.  labor is $1.25 per hour
2.  it doesn't break and have to wait on parts and no wires
3.  it rains six months of the year and the system is never turned on

Nice.  Nothing is more efficient than a guy with a hose and QCs all over.  You have to have the horses though...
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2014, 02:19:31 PM »
Some summers in England you'd get away with it, but you wouldn't have had any greens left last summer. Tees and greens are a must at most half decent courses in the south.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2014, 06:02:17 PM »
Ryan,

with the appropriate maintenance your greens would brown off but the grass would not die (well except the poa maybe). With tees it depends on there size.

Adrian,

I would agree with preferable but not essential. Indeed in the south with the water shortage problems it having to cope in dry spells without irrigation might be an issue sooner than you might think.

Jon

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2014, 06:20:02 PM »
Ryan,

with the appropriate maintenance your greens would brown off but the grass would not die (well except the poa maybe). With tees it depends on there size.

Adrian,

I would agree with preferable but not essential. Indeed in the south with the water shortage problems it having to cope in dry spells without irrigation might be an issue sooner than you might think.

Jon


But they are poa Jon. At least 50%. Last Summer we had no rain for 2+ months and in July, about 2 weeks where temps were pushing 90. Not to water would have been suicide.

RBlair

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2014, 08:01:09 PM »
I know a great course in Knoxville Tennessee with one single row of heads down the somewhat center lines of the fairways only.  Do have a loop around the putting surfaces and a head for most tee boxes. Design ahead of its time? No just like most things once what was popular comes back in style again.  Will say less heads less items to work on.  Holston Hills, another Ross ahead of its time right.

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2014, 03:49:02 AM »
Poa, bent, fescue, bermudagrass, any turfgrass you can name, all have one thing in common. If, during growing conditions, they are deprived of water for extended periods of time they will die. No question. I have witnessed it with my own eyes. It only varies for each species how long it might tolerate the stress.

The number of irrigation lines, or even sprinkler heads, is not the determining factor for the amount of water used and less so for irrigation efficiency. What matters most is size of the area being covered.

Say you have a fairway 20 meters wide, which is just about the watering radius of a standard sprinkler head, and say you wanted to water only the fairway and not the rough. A single row of sprinklers down the center, spaced at 20m so there is 100% overlap in the middle, will leave gaps on the outer edges where the arcs don’t meet. Also, at most, any area is covered by no more than two sprinklers, which limits the extent to which the cycles can be manipulated for maximum efficiency, or distribution uniformity. Any piece of ground is subject to varying effects of wind, sun, shade, differing soils, proximity of drains, and elevations that all require subtle adjustments in timing irrigation cycles. It’s preferable to have single head control as well, rather than two, three, or four heads working in series. 

What would work better, both for the playing surfaces, and for water use efficiency, would be two rows of part-circles throwing in from both sides. Better yet would be a center row complemented by outside rows of part-circles. Each sprinkler would need to be on for only a fraction of the time of the more basic single row system. .

It may seem counter-intuitive, but more sprinklers over a given area, properly managed, will actually save water and improve playing conditions.

And no, I have no commercial interest in selling irrigation supplies.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2014, 05:24:18 AM »
Ryan,

have you thought that the 50% poa is because of irrigation abuse? The rate of die back from drought in the poa is not so quick as prevent other stronger grasses to replace it at an appropriate pace. This is of course something that needs doing gradually over several seasons.


Poa, bent, fescue, bermudagrass, any turfgrass you can name, all have one thing in common. If, during growing conditions, they are deprived of water for extended periods of time they will die. No question. I have witnessed it with my own eyes. It only varies for each species how long it might tolerate the stress.


Steve,

you keep coming up with gems don't you. You are correct if talking about no rainfall over many, many months combined with heat and wind but the discussion is not about such Saharan weather but rather south of England. If you are correct in your assertions then all turfgrass that is not irrigated would die leaving vast swathes of the countryside a dessert. Yet even in dry summers such as 2003 and 2013 the south of England was not so and the grass did not die except swards weakened by imprudent maintenance practices.

Jon

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2014, 06:06:16 AM »
I still maintain essential is the word for certainly the South of England.

Unless you want to really lower your standard. The GCA is often NOT THE WAY to do it and 95% of your membership demand good greens. We might love Painswick and Cleeve Cloud but both have been very close to extinction because the 5% dont pay the bills.

Without irrigation on greens the following scenario happens.
1. You would lose almost all your members
2. Would have to have a much cheaper subscription
3. You go bust

People have choice and the golf club next door has it's doors open.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2014, 08:38:07 AM »
I have never quite been on board with the single row, even at P2.  Certainly won't work well with carts, since they stay near the edge a lot, and that is where coverage would be the weakest.

2 row simply gives you better protection against the wind, with its overlapping coverage.

Had trouble with 3 row - you set the outer two rows up for longer run times so they can do the rough, and the center row a bit less to get even amounts in the fw.

Hate to say it, but 4 row still makes sense to me - 2 rows running maybe twice a week for the fw, and the outer two rows running once a week max for primarily the rough.

My emphasis has always been heads where you need to grow grass, but without the pipe size to allow anyone to run those heads every stinking day.  Lots of golf courses out there with every other night watering and that is more than enough (yes, climates vary)  Worked in the old days.  Now, some members don't like the idea of variable fw (such as the 12th having been watered and the 13th a bit drier) so the tendency has been to huge mainline pipe. 
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2014, 08:47:24 AM »
Read Nuzzo Blog on how Don Mahaffey implemented the irrigation system at Wolf Point.  He used a triangle pattern instead of 3 rows across, saved a ton of money.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2014, 08:49:53 AM »
Here are the links to the Wolf Point articles:

Wolf Point - http://www.nuzzocoursedesign.com/wp.html

Irrigation Blog - http://nuzzogolfcoursedesign.blogspot.com/search/label/irrigation
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2014, 09:12:07 AM »
Paul,

Triangulation can and is used with multiple row systems by nearly all irrigation designers.  It is the best way to "even out" precipitation rates.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: single irrigation lines
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2014, 09:18:15 AM »
Triangulation and independent head control is the nearest you will get to best practice to get the water on evenly.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

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