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Josh Bills

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Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« on: June 04, 2014, 12:49:07 PM »
I am part of a website www.three45golf.org that recently released their findings and the data to back it up as to pace of play in America.  Here is the press release and I have permission from Dr. Riccio, to share the data if anyone is interested. 

I think if you look at the data you will see the courses are a good sampling and the study reveals an average of 4 hours 17 minutes.  Of course there are exceptions as have been talked about on here including Arcadia Bluffs taking 5 hours. 

With that said, here is the press release. 

                 
                    “Advocates for a Quicker Pace of Play”
                            www.three45golf.org


Study reveals an average golf round in America takes 4 hours 17 minutes – But with great variation!

When it comes to Pace of Play, there is good news and bad news.
 
First the good news: We might not be as slow as we think.

The bad news is it varies greatly depending on where and when you play. Time to play 18 holes can average well under four hours at some courses, but can average over five at others.

The most comprehensive pace-of-play, data-driven technology-based study ever of American golf reveals that the average time to play an 18 hole round is 4 hours 17 minutes. Not surprisingly golfers play faster at private courses—well under 4 hours—and much slower at public courses. Nevertheless, almost 30 percent of all rounds in the study were played in less than 4 hours and only one in 10 rounds exceeded 5 hours.

The study, conducted by the Three 45 Golf Association and a team led by Dr. Lucius J. Riccio of Columbia University, studied more than 40,000 rounds at 175 U.S. courses, with data provided by GPS Industries, which installs state-of-the-art GPS systems in golf carts.

“We were surprised, pleasantly so, by some of these findings,” said Dr. Riccio, author of Golf’s Pace of Play Bible. “Obviously, there is room for improvement. Much more has to be done to reduce the time to play. But the findings demonstrate that golfers are perfectly capable of speedy rounds when play is managed correctly.”

Tee time intervals are a big part of the problem. The Three 45 study demonstrated, for example, that where play is lighter, rounds go faster, not unlike cars on a highway. “Courses with a high number of rounds per day (like a crowded highway) had elapsed times higher than courses with lower amounts of play, adding strong evidence to the importance of tee intervals as the main culprit of slow elapsed times.”

For Riccio, this means that course operators, and not just golfers themselves, need to be educated on the fundamentals of golf’s traffic flow, which has been cited as a culprit in the sport’s weakening participation.  “Tee intervals have to be set to match course and golfer characteristics,” says Riccio. “Each course and every membership or customer base is different. Operators have to manage play based on their unique profile.”

That may mean copying some of the practices of private courses. The “fastest” courses in the study were all from Florida and all private, with Coral Ridge Country Club in Ft. Lauderdale, and Stoney Brook Golf Club in Orlando, averaging just over 3 hours 20 minutes per round. At the slowest courses, Arcadia Bluffs in Michigan and Quarry Golf in Texas, both public access, rounds averaged about 5 hours.

Not surprisingly, the first rounds of the day at all facilities were fastest, averaging 3 hours and 46 minutes, but afternoon rounds averaged 4 hours 21 minutes. Elapsed times also varied by days of the week, with weekdays averaging about 10 minutes faster than weekends.

What was not clear from the study was whether course difficulty played a significant role. Though there was a slight correlation between elapsed time and course length, it was not significant, and “no relationship could be found between time to play and USGA Course Rating,” according to the authors.

Riccio said that the Three 45 Golf Association plans more studies in partnership with GPS Industries. “This analysis proves that with the right amount and type of data—and we got more technology-based data here than anyone has ever collected—we’ll be able to provide courses with helpful suggestions, specific plans and advanced management systems for combatting slow play,” he said.

The study can be accessed online at www.three45golf.org. For more information on the study or how the Three45 Golf Association can improve play at your course, email Dr. Riccio at info@three45golf.org or ljr14@columbia.edu.  Golf’s Pace of Play Bible is available on Amazon and Kindle.

For more information about how GPS Industries can help manage pace of play at your course by installing state of the art systems, contact Kevin Carpenter at kevin.carpenter@gpsindustries.com.
 








RJ_Daley

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Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2014, 01:20:30 PM »
On first impression, this just sounds like a sales pitch for the GPS industry.  Not that there is anything totally wrong with that, if we just keep in mind that the study is probably commisioned for a certain commercial interest.  The interest may still be a net positive for golf.

I did not spend time todsy readibg the entire study, if there is more than pasted above.  Excuse if this was covered.  But, factors that are most contribuatory to slow play in my view are,  public courses with penal rough and other hazards that slow play without really adding the fun factor or promote satisfying golf experiences, only time consuming frustrating delays.   Lack of signage directing players where to go bothon carts and walker/trolley push-pullers.  When people at public courses don't play a course regularly like private clubbers do, they often don't know the proper circulation routes.  Lack of signage and ineffective or non-existant rangers are time killers.  Signage pre-advising playerss of things like "keep up with the group ahead" and, this course is rated 4hrs 10 minutes playing time, or "you should have reached this point (turn) in 2hrs 5 mins, etc.   

If a course just doesn't route out well, and you play it efficiently along with players ahead, but because of cartball long green-tee trips and all those kind of things, but you are not actually waiting to hit shots; then if it takes longer, that is just what you have to cope with if you want to play there. 

Finally, on the daily fee CCFAD kind of venues, with average fees quite high, I think there is a mentality to go slow, play every shot and hole out, even if you are making 10 strokes, because they want to get their money's worth, even if it devalues the other players cost because they are waiting on the one wanting the full buck worth.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2014, 03:31:32 PM »
For me, speed of the game mostly comes down to short putts, which is also why I don't play too many serious rounds.  In serious rounds, when I take my time (30 seconds or so) on putts under 4 feet, I'd guess I'm in the 95% or above range.  However, when I'm playing my quick rounds, when I put these out without thought, I'm closer to 75%, as I miss quite a few in the 3 or 4 foot range if I don't slow down considerably. 

It's pretty easy to see how a fourball that is really trying to hole all putts with focus can add a half hour or more to a casual game on those shots alone.

Matt Frey, PGA

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 10:18:50 AM »
I stumbled across this document from the ASGCA today for course managers:

http://asgca.org/images/stories/publications/ASGCA-PACE_OF_PLAY-7-31-14-Low.pdf

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 11:10:23 AM »
This is a topic that has been reflected upon often by my golfing pals here in Chicago.
In short, "we" disagree with almost all current hypotheses put forth in the study and web site.

The solution is just so much simpler and less expensive:

1. GOLFERS, please be ready to hit your shot!!
2. PGA Tour: Please tell your players to move their asses and, while you're at it, approve measuring devices now. And, BTW, start penalizing marquee players for slow play instead of just young amateurs!!

Back in the real world, It's a cumulative combo effect of:

1. Get your yardage and club selection while your partners are hitting

- We believe that once range finders are approved on PGA tour, then this may trickle down to the retail golfer.

2. No need to all watch each guy go through his routine, then after he hits, you go on to next guy.
3. Cut your pre-shot routine down to 25 seconds instead of 45 seconds.
4. Start lining up your putts while others are away. If you are not in other player's lines, then put your ball down. For God's sake please if you are going to stalk your 17' par putt from all angles, please do so while your pals are hitting their 27' birdie putts!

We played a Sunday morning 3-ball in 2:28 last weekend and never felt like there was a sprint. Not saying that this should be the norm, but this same group, when one more is added, plays a 4-ball in 3:00 tops!

When a "guest" joins us, here is how the math breaks down (and we have timed this on-course):

A. Pre-shot routine of 40 seconds, instead of 25 seconds x 85 shots (average 10-12 HDCP-er) = added time per player of 21.25 minutes per round.
B. Players who walk (or ride) from their partner's ball to theirs after watching him hit = 15 seconds x 18 shots (none on par 3s, one on par 4s, and 2 on par 5s) = 4.5 minutes per round per player.

C. You can see here that ~ 25 mins per player per round can be added (or shaved) simply by modifying your preparedness to hit your shot when it's your turn. This has been proven to us week in and week out.

Yes, we are extremely fortunate to be playing at a private club and I am thankful for that. When I do get asked to play with others, many of whom are good friends, I see the times go up to 4:00 for a 4-ball and even to the industry average of 4:17 at the same course when we have no waiting in front of us at all. zThese players are no better or worse (HDCP) than my preferred partners. They just manage the process differently.

There are two guys at our club with whom we no longer wish to play as we have dubbed them both "the human rain delays" solely because of their 47 second pre-shot routines that add 40 - 50 minutes onto every round.

It's not just about "ready golf" where players who may not be away hit when ready. It's about preparedness, foresight and conscientiousness.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 11:41:12 AM »
I play with a couple of 17 handicappers who on average take 15 more shots than me per round.  I am forced to hit every shot while they are moving about in a cluster of incompetence.  Now when I manage to hit one in the gunch and take time to look it is always on the one hole where they are making par.  One of the guys hit me the other day because I was up at my drive waiting for him to catch up, this was on the first hole.  I honestly do not know what to do anymore when it comes to putting my life at risk so everyone can play golf and live life according to their own personal schedule.


Peter Pallotta

Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 11:51:38 AM »
I play with a couple of 17 handicappers who on average take 15 more shots than me per round.  I am forced to hit every shot while they are moving about in a cluster of incompetence.  Now when I manage to hit one in the gunch and take time to look it is always on the one hole where they are making par.  One of the guys hit me the other day because I was up at my drive waiting for him to catch up, this was on the first hole.  I honestly do not know what to do anymore when it comes to putting my life at risk so everyone can play golf and live life according to their own personal schedule.


If you didn't try to be such a good person all the time and so consistent in your efforts to be socially responsible, I'm sure you'd be able to find a quick (but graceful) way to extricate yourself from that twosome and never play a round with them again (or only rarely).

Start putting your own schedule at least on par with that of your fellow members -- I think in modern language it's called being "self-full" instead of "selfish". The alternative is to start feeling ill-used and embittered

 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 11:53:37 AM by PPallotta »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 11:58:05 AM »
I play with a couple of 17 handicappers who on average take 15 more shots than me per round.  I am forced to hit every shot while they are moving about in a cluster of incompetence.  Now when I manage to hit one in the gunch and take time to look it is always on the one hole where they are making par.  One of the guys hit me the other day because I was up at my drive waiting for him to catch up, this was on the first hole.  I honestly do not know what to do anymore when it comes to putting my life at risk so everyone can play golf and live life according to their own personal schedule.


If you didn't try to be such a good person all the time and so consistent in your efforts to be socially responsible, I'm sure you'd be able to find a quick (but graceful) way to extricate yourself from that that twosome and never play a round with them again (or only rarely).

Start putting your own schedule at least on par with that of your fellow members -- I think in modern language it's called being "self-full" instead of "selfish".

 


The 17 handicappers are my friends, it's the twosome with their hands on their hips standing on the first tee while we arrive to our first shots of the day that I can't stand.  Part of the problem is that those guys logged onto the internet one day and read that it should never take over 3 hours to play a round of golf.  They are pissed at just the sight of us and once hand hits hip the feeling is mutual.

I think the majority of golfers are angry before they even hit the parking lot.  Not because of fear on how they might play, or balls they may lose, or how much it will cost to buy that new driver.  They are angry because they may have to watch some rube in front of them enjoy a day of golf at a pace not to their liking.  The angry people are the problem.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2014, 12:36:13 PM »
I play with a couple of 17 handicappers who on average take 15 more shots than me per round.  I am forced to hit every shot while they are moving about in a cluster of incompetence.  Now when I manage to hit one in the gunch and take time to look it is always on the one hole where they are making par.  One of the guys hit me the other day because I was up at my drive waiting for him to catch up, this was on the first hole.  I honestly do not know what to do anymore when it comes to putting my life at risk so everyone can play golf and live life according to their own personal schedule.


If you didn't try to be such a good person all the time and so consistent in your efforts to be socially responsible, I'm sure you'd be able to find a quick (but graceful) way to extricate yourself from that that twosome and never play a round with them again (or only rarely).

Start putting your own schedule at least on par with that of your fellow members -- I think in modern language it's called being "self-full" instead of "selfish".

 


The 17 handicappers are my friends, it's the twosome with their hands on their hips standing on the first tee while we arrive to our first shots of the day that I can't stand.  Part of the problem is that those guys logged onto the internet one day and read that it should never take over 3 hours to play a round of golf.  They are pissed at just the sight of us and once hand hits hip the feeling is mutual.

I think the majority of golfers are angry before they even hit the parking lot.  Not because of fear on how they might play, or balls they may lose, or how much it will cost to buy that new driver.  They are angry because they may have to watch some rube in front of them enjoy a day of golf at a pace not to their liking.  The angry people are the problem.

How long does your typical round take? 

Russ Arbuthnot

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2014, 12:59:38 PM »
Does anyone have a video that shows a group playing their shots in a manner that Ian Mackenzie describes?

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2014, 01:28:09 PM »
Carl,

I have never measured a round on the basis of time. We play too slow for the twosomes behind us but not so slow to have been warned by management. We never hold up a foresome.

I never play when I have somewhere to be. I am however expected home within an hour of total darkness.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2014, 01:56:39 PM »
Here is what we are currently working on and will put in place this fall...
 
The following will be placed on the sign holder of each cart


PACE OF PLAY

Pace of play is an important factor in the enjoyment of the game and to that end we encourage groups to play in 4 hours or less and politely ask that groups not exceed 4 hours 20 minutes. The following tips adapted from the USGA & Golf Channel should help pick up the pace.

CART SMART: Don’t wait in the cart while your cartmate hits and then drive to your ball. Get out and walk to your ball with a few clubs. Be ready to play when it is your turn and then let your cartmate pick you up. Or, drive to your ball after you drop your cartmate off and then pick him or her up after you hit.

EFFICIENT PUTTING: Mark your ball and clean it when you arrive at the putting green so you are ready to replace it when it is your turn to play. Line up your putt while others are putting, without disturbing them. Leave your clubs on the side of the putting green closest to the next tee, and leave the green promptly after holing out. Wait until the next tee to record your score.

SHOT CLOCK: Aim to play in 25 seconds. From club selection to pre-shot routine to execution, strive to hit your shot in 25 seconds when it is your turn to play. Help keep play moving at a brisk pace.

MAYBE IT’S YOU: Nobody believes they play slow. Accept and embrace the reality that an enjoyable pace of play is the responsibility of each and every player.  If it is you, pick it up. If it another member of your group, help them pick it up.

MAX PACE BY HOUR:  1hr - #5 Tee  /  2hrs - #9 Green  /  3hrs - #13 Green  /  4hrs - #17 Green

The Ocean Course



Some form of the following will be presented to each group and likely posted on the practice tee. This is a first and quick cut at this so there may be math errors... etc at this point but you get the idea. 


PACE OF PLAY
“ON THE CLOCK”

A self imposed “shot clock” will radically improve the pace of play. This shot clock would include obtaining yardage, pre shot routine and executing the shot. Considering the times below and that it will take roughly 45-50 minutes to cover the 7 to 8 miles this leaves a tremendous amount of time to locate errant shots, congratulate or laugh at one another and enjoy the company of your playing partners. One also begins to understand the amount of time actually “wasted” in playing the shot at hand assuming a leisurely 4 hour round of golf. 

20 Second Shot Clock
•   Average score of 100 – 2 hours  1 minute playing golf shots
•   Average score of 90 – 1 hour 48 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 80 – 1 hour 35 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 70 – 1 hour 22 minutes playing golf shots

25 Second Shot Clock
•   Average score of 100 – 2 hours  32 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 90 – 2 hours 15 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 80 – 1 hour 58 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 70 – 1 hour 42 minutes playing golf shots

30 Second Shot Clock
•   Average score of 100 – 3 hours  2 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 90 – 2 hours 42 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 80 – 2 hours 22 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 70 – 2 hours 2 minutes playing golf shots

35 Second Shot Clock
•   Average score of 100 – 3 hours  33 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 90 – 3 hours 9 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 80 – 2 hours 45 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 70 – 2 hours 22 minutes playing golf shots

40 Second Shot Clock
•   Average score of 100 – 4 hours  4 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 90 – 3 hours 36 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 80 – 3 hours 9 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 70 – 2 hours 42 minutes playing golf shots

45 Second Shot Clock
•   Average score of 100 – 4 hours  34 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 90 – 4 hours 3 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 80 – 3 hours 32 minutes playing golf shots
•   Average score of 70 – 3 hours 2 minutes playing golf shots

Formula: Individual average score minus 9 provides the number of “timed shots per player”. Take the timed shots per player and multiply by shot clock limit to arrive at each players “individual execution time”. Multiply the individual execution time by 4 and you have the “Group Execution Time” in seconds, divide by 60 to arrive at total minutes spent executing golf shots for each shot clock limit for a group of 4.


Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2014, 02:06:04 PM »
Carl,

I have never measured a round on the basis of time. We play too slow for the twosomes behind us but not so slow to have been warned by management. We never hold up a foresome.

I never play when I have somewhere to be. I am however expected home within an hour of total darkness.

Not looking for something precise.  Just wondering whether you think you usually play in 3:45, 4:15, or 4:45 (or whatever).

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2014, 02:28:55 PM »
@ Russ - i will see if I can video one hole for you.

You would be amazed at what a fluid, unrushed tempo of events occurs.

1. 4 tee shots in 2 minutes tops
2. Group convenes off tee box and walks casually, but with conviction down fairway as conversation starts.
3. At about the 200 yard mark, we scatter while finishing up stories of work, kids, wives, music, etc
4. Each man arrives at his ball about same time. While aware of the others, we pick club, yardage, line and...fire. 4 clicks in less than 2 minutes and we again convene in fairway, sometimes as 2 groups of two or all 4 depending on shot dispersion.
5. Arrive at green, or bunker, or rough by green. anyone not on green automatically proceeds with shot. Balls are marked, cleaned and replaced when not in other's line. Ready golf for sure on green except if a formal match is being played.
6. All putts within 0 - 12" are conceded. (Inside the real leather.)

It becomes a rhythmic thing of beauty. Comradeship, conversation and social interaction are maintained. Skill level varies but is between +2 and 16 HDCP and the 16 plays all the time at this pace and is 6'6" and 275 pounds.


Mike Bowen

Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2014, 03:40:43 PM »
I've played a few rounds as a single this year, including a 100 Hole Hike.  My rounds vary between 2:05 and 2:25.  By no means do I rush during these rounds.  I just golf at my comfortable pace.

I have also played more than a few rounds in a foursome with not a single group in front of us.  These rounds usually take 4 hours give or take a few minutes.  These means I spend an hour and 45 minutes watching other people golf.  It's ridiculous.  I also wouldn't consider these guys to be anything slower than average. 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2014, 06:14:52 PM »
Carl,

I have never measured a round on the basis of time. We play too slow for the twosomes behind us but not so slow to have been warned by management. We never hold up a foresome.

I never play when I have somewhere to be. I am however expected home within an hour of total darkness.

Not looking for something precise.  Just wondering whether you think you usually play in 3:45, 4:15, or 4:45 (or whatever).

Carl,

This is the last time because I despise the culture of how long.

We played a sixsome today, six golfers hdcp 2-11, in carts 100% by the rules putting everything out. One guy lost in four figures. It's a very serious game. We took 3:52. It was very windy with off and on rain so we didn't let have to let anyone through.

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2014, 06:22:14 PM »
The biggest waste of time on a golf course is the time spent on the putting green.

It takes between 50-70 minutes to WALK a golf course....everything else is time taken to play the shots or waiting. If they are the first group out there is no waiting, if they take 4 hours and 20 minutes and its a 70 minute walk, they have taken 3 hours 10 minutes to play their shots.

I think we could knock 15-30 minutes off the time it takes to play golf with the changing of a golf rule (s).

YOU CAN ONLY MARK THE BALL ONCE ON THE GREEN...No penalty if you hit your opponents ball, if the opponents ball in direct line you can ask for the opponents ball to be marked and lifted THAT CORRECTS ALL THAT WASTED TIME LINING THE BALL UP.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2014, 03:20:50 AM »
In my experience most time is wasted between shots with people meandering their way to their ball. The people are not ready to play their shot when it is their turn even if they have been waiting on others to play. Finally, the reluctance of experienced players to help/cajole slower players to speed up. Even 4balls should be getting round in 3 hours in none comp games.

Most people score better when playing faster.

Jon

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2014, 09:15:51 AM »
On the surface this data seems cold and inadequate. Just the need and/or desire to create this type of data (And how it was collected) speaks volumes about an industry mindset. But what's worse, it exemplifies how many people don't understand the nature of the sport they've chosen to make their livelihood, and that they would need this data. Not to mention the someone who would try to sell it.

Golf is not an industry, it's a culture. And within that culture, each course has it's own independent culture, and cultures. Depending on the time of day, or, day of the week.

Are there any courses in the UK, or Australia that would need this data? I doubt it.

Golfer's that fall behind the pace, either make a concerted effort to catch up, or they don't.

Is this purely an American problem?

Is it our newest export to China?


 
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2014, 09:49:00 AM »
We played a sixsome today, six golfers hdcp 2-11, in carts 100% by the rules putting everything out. One guy lost in four figures. It's a very serious game. We took 3:52. It was very windy with off and on rain so we didn't let have to let anyone through.

Even 4balls should be getting round in 3 hours in none comp games.

The two quotes above illustrate a dichotomy that cannot be easily remedied. On that average Saturday, golf courses have many groups with very different games being played and very different goals involved. It takes a real jackass to putt everything out and grind over every shot in a casual game where some liberties are being taken with the rules and no real competition is occurring. It also takes a real jackass to suggest that the group in front shouldn't be able to grind over putts worth $1000 because it might slow his quest to be home in 3:45. We've all met both of those jackasses.

Is it good that golf can be played as a casual activity that doesn't necessarily involve serious competition? Yes. Is it good that golf can also be played as a serious competition involving the thrill of heavy wagering? Yes. 3:52 for a sixsome is not outlandish. 3:30 for a foursome isn't either. Nor is 3 hours for a foursome, but therein lies the problem. No matter how fast one group wants to play, there's always someone else who wants to play faster. Even the fastest group on a course may have an individual player who thinks "it's ridiculous" that he has to spend half his round "watching other people play golf," because God-forbid the social aspect of the game would ever trump his ability to get around in 2:05 while playing as a single and golfing at his "comfortable pace." I'm a little embarrassed for the author every time I read a post where someone discusses how quickly they can play as a single. I don't care how many shots it takes you to score 60 while shooting hoops alone in your driveway, I don't care how long you last when you rub one out when you're home alone, and I certainly don't care how quickly you can walk 18 golf holes while unburdened by your acquaintances. We could all move through life more quickly if we didn't have to go to weddings, check Facebook, talk to coworkers at lunch, meet up with friends for drinks, and hug our spouses.

To trumpet what John has said for years, the only way to fix the pace of play problem is for everyone to expect to play at the same pace. Unfortunately, that may be impossible.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2014, 11:36:48 AM »
Wow, a study that shows rounds at private golf courses are faster than public courses!  No way!  Revolutionary stuff.   ::)

Where's Bill Yates when you need him.

Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2014, 04:53:04 PM »
here is one solution at my parents club that took 8 minutes off an average 9-hole round for their couples league.

- In groups where multiple tees are played,   the people playing the farther forward tees, tee off first.


while it sounds silly, it really works.   Think about it like this.     People playing the front tees are generally the shortest hitters in the group.  Generally, they are the last to tee off,  BUT the FIRST to hit their second seconds.    Usually these are consecutive shots.   Extra time is wasted since the entire group now has to wait for them to put them club away and start walking/riding to their next shot.

When they hit first, they will have more time to get ready while the ready of the group is getting ready to hit their tee balls.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2014, 06:11:22 PM »
Mark,

I suspect it comes down to etiquette as when ever I play if you are waiting for the group in front to clear but one of your group can play then you let them play. The honour is a nicety but should be trumped by pace of play except in matchplay. Jason, on an average Saturday I would be surprised to find anyone playing for $1000 putts. If for no other reason than it would forfeit their amateur status.

Of course the idiotic handicap system in the USA that requires cards to be handed in for every game can't help the pace of play much. Another problem is that fewer players seem to accept letting a faster group play through these days.

Jon

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2014, 06:29:28 PM »
Playing out of turn only helps if your group has fallen behind. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pace of Play Recent Study and Data
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2014, 07:06:32 PM »
Mark,

I suspect it comes down to etiquette as when ever I play if you are waiting for the group in front to clear but one of your group can play then you let them play. The honour is a nicety but should be trumped by pace of play except in matchplay. Jason, on an average Saturday I would be surprised to find anyone playing for $1000 putts. If for no other reason than it would forfeit their amateur status.

Of course the idiotic handicap system in the USA that requires cards to be handed in for every game can't help the pace of play much. Another problem is that fewer players seem to accept letting a faster group play through these days.

Jon

Playing for money should not slow a group down. Playing 100% by the rules does when you include putting out everything. I would agree that gamblers have no more status on a course than anyone else but I do believe we should all have the right to play by the rules. If not, change them and make everything a maximum two putt. That would help my gambling.

We do not play $1000 a putt. We put at risk $1000 a round. That is very common on a per course basis in the US.

Every problem I have had in 2014 with being pushed has been on the first hole of the day. I think that golfers have become so enamored with their per round times that they try to fudge their results by getting off early. Why if I happen to get off a great drive on the first hole, we have a turbo boost that can result in a rollout, should I have to hear your ball first hit and then land 30 yds behind me on my first approach of the day?  Then after pushing my shot into the bunker why should I have to see your extreme disgust and overhear your chatter as I finish raking the bunker. All of this with two minutes left before your tee time.   This or something similar has happened four times this year and each time we wave the group through before we ever finish putting.

We never have a problem out on the course because when we see a group approaching we let them know to go through ASAP.  If they catch us on the course they catch us.  If they show up early for their tee time it is a different and more aggravating story. If the start on 10 I want to break something.

Funny thing, the guys who rush and forget the rules during their rake and run aerobic adventures always happen to take six hours in the member guest and run away with the money.