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Ran Morrissett

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Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« on: June 02, 2014, 12:21:00 PM »
We kick off the new Best of Golf section (PLEASE REFRESH YOUR BROWSER IF YOU DON’T SEE IT) with an in-depth look at the fifth hole at Pinehurst No. 2.

While it needs no introduction, we will all be seeing the fifth in a different light ten days from today when it plays as a par 5 for the first time since the 1936 PGA Championship. Yes, that’s correct, it was a par 5 at the last big event during Ross’s lifetime.
 
Like some of you, I was initially perturbed (as golf architecture zealots tend to get! ;D) when it was announced that this hole was going to play as something other than the beastly two shotter it has been for six plus decades. With further reflection I have come to appreciate the wisdom of the change for a variety reasons. In particular, the last 120 yards or so of this hole is my single favorite part of the Pinehurst property and it will see much more traffic as a result of the hole being stretched ~110 yards. Played from either 580 yards or 470 yards as it did in 2005, the hole has the same par – 4 1/2!



Yet, I suspect that playing it as a reachable par 5 will encourage the USGA to use some of the spicy left hole locations. Heroic and strange events will unfold here during both events - I can’t wait. For sure, I’ll be hanging out there to watch the melee - it’s the equivalent of waiting for a pile-up at a NASCAR event!
 
Hope you enjoy this entry and there is no more appropriate way to kick off a section entitled ‘Best of …’ than with this infamously infuriating Ross creation.

Best,

Jason Topp

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 12:45:26 PM »
At least my experience of the hole will fit with those that lay up.  I recall a snap hook into the wire grass and then a pitch out.   After that it gets hazy which suggests it did not go well.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2014, 01:35:36 PM »
Approach to 5, pre-restoration.



Such a great/demanding shot given the bunkering and green angle.  It seems like it might be easy when hitting from the fairway, but seeing that green up close...you realize it ain't.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Paul Carey

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2014, 03:07:19 PM »
That green is perfect for a par five.   A shot a little short or a little left comes back to the left bunker which is no bargain.  A weak bunker shot could come back again.  We will see some head shaking coming off that green.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2014, 05:01:36 PM »
Like you, Ran, I am reticent to believe that changing the par helps the hole.  I loved the hole the way it was.  I probably wouldn't play the hole any differently though, and I doubt whether or not the pros will. It will be interesting to watch. I'm not sure what is gained by changing par.

On another note, I can't see the Best Of Golf section on either my iPhone or iPad.  I have turned them both off and restarted them but it made no difference.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Paul Gray

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2014, 06:15:58 PM »
Brilliant start, Ran.

And pleased to see you stuck with the simple title for the new section.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Rees Milikin

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2014, 08:35:32 PM »

On another note, I can't see the Best Of Golf section on either my iPhone or iPad.  I have turned them both off and restarted them but it made no difference.

After I cleared my browsing history and then closed the browser, it showed up.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 08:47:44 PM »
In particular, the last 120 yards or so of this hole is my single favorite part of the Pinehurst property

Why are those yards so special to you, Ran?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Tom Bacsanyi

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2014, 05:40:32 PM »
Very nice.  I missed my approach left and made a tidy double.  Just desserts, Mr. Ross.  That was a great day though. 
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Jim Lipstate

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2014, 08:28:11 PM »
The fifth is my favorite and also most vexing hole on #2. I've been fortunate to play Pinehurst #2 the past three years as part of the Liberty Mutual National Invitational Four Man Scramble. This year it was disconcerting, to say the least, to see the group in front of us double bogey the hole in a four man scramble! I find the green complex on the fifth to be devilish and I doubt it will be much easier to get a shot to stick on that green as a three shot hole. I learned a new statistic which comes into play at #2 - the GVR.  That stands for "green visited in regulation" only to see the ball meander off into runoff areas or bunkers. That would be a fun stat to keep track of at this years Open.

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2014, 08:29:54 PM »
Before (2005)

After (2012)

Before

After
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Mike Bowen

Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2014, 08:50:13 PM »
The restoration is stunning.  Pinehurst went from a course that I was mildly curious about to a bucket list course.  The course now has a look that is unique and helps to set it apart from others.  Good on the visionaries who took the course back to its roots.

Does anyone know who was the driving force behind the restoration?

Charlie Gallagher

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2014, 12:24:31 PM »
This is a brutal and very cool hole. If you can launch driver far enough right and long there is a kick slope that gives you more run off the tee shot and shortens shot number two. Any drive left half of the fairway will run further left.  The approach is very tough becuase the green is sloped hard left on its left side towards the big bunker. If I remember correctly, the right front side slopes to the right, so the crowned nature of the green is quite pronounced near the front portion. A long approach is going to have to come in very high and with lots of spin to have any chance of sticking. Any hole location left edge of the green will be brutally difficult if the putt is from the right. Even a wedge thrown at this green will have to be accurately judged in order to produce a makeable birdie opportunity. Even configured as a short Par 5 this hole is going to be very challenging. As a par 4, I thought it was easily the hardest hole on the course. Not sure it has many hole locations on its green.

Charlie Gallagher

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2014, 03:30:35 PM »
Mike Bowen:
    Bill Coore relates that the powers that be in the ownership group decided to bring in C and C for the work and gave them simple instructions that the company wanted the course restored to Ross's vision after he had completed his many tweeks and revisions to the course. C and C poured over photos from the Tufts archives, but there were few aerial  pictures from the late 30's, early 40's. Sometime near the commencement of the work a gentleman produced aerial pictures taken during the expansion of Fort Bragg in the early 40's. The survey planes would repeatedly turn over Pinehurst and the camera would still be rolling. That was the Rosetta Stone as those photos showed the course a few years prior to Ross's death.
   I'm sure some soul has more detail than that, but that's the gist of the facts as Coore told them to a group of architecture enthusiasts I was with.

Mike Bowen

Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2014, 08:46:28 PM »
Mr. Gallagher,

Thanks.  Very interesting stuff.  Not that it really matters, but would be interesting to know who the first person to suggest it is.  I have to assume that this restoration has been very successful by all measures and this individual deserves a healthy bonus.  Or at least a pat on the back.  ;D

Charlie Gallagher

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2014, 07:37:17 AM »
Mike,
  I have only played Number 2 one time, after the restoration work by Coore and Crenshaw. What they wrought makes so much sense from a maintenance and strategic perspective it is staggering. In spite of its monochromatic look and the repeating theme of convexity, it is a monument to what is sound in course design. It is sort of the anti Dye kryptonite, if you will. What Dye presents as a test at TPC Sawgrass is countered by the skill examination designed by Ross at Number 2, in my mind. As intentionally jarring as TPC is to the eye, Pinehurst Number 2 is appealing, yet each presents a confounding proposition for the player.
  Incidentally, if one wonders why Pinehurst Number 2 drifted away from Ross's original design and look it is apparent that irrigation was a primary factor. Bermuda grass loves water, and the addition of irrigation on the outsides of fairways caused the grass to grow laterally invading the areas once occupied by scrub and sand. C and C brought Ross's original genius back in play.
   The one X factor that is probably not reclaimed is the Scot's evolved green contour vision, although Coore believes that in a few instances they were able to restore a couple of greens towards originally intended contour based upon thatch layer discovered during restoration.
  It is going to be really fun next week to see how the course plays. I encourage the USGA to let nature take its path and keep Number Two moist enough to stay alive. If there is wind, my bet is it will be an enormous scoring challenge.

Marc Huther

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2014, 10:05:52 PM »
Great hole! Great course!

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2014, 04:01:43 PM »
I was out there today and Luke Donald drove it to the top of the hill and hit the green in two while Dustin Johnson drove it well over the hill and hit an iron onto the green while the other two guys missed the green - one long and one left.  5 did look great but I have to add that the green complex on 4 was amazing.  The entire course will present amazing challenges with greens like the par 3 15th nearly impossible if they really firm up.  I just hope they don't get the rain that is forecasted. 

Ran Morrissett

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2014, 01:11:05 PM »
What impact did changing the par at 4 and 5 have yesterday? Here is the data:

Hole 3 - avg score 4.166 (FYI its tee today is ~80 yards shorter than yesterday’s)
Hole 4 - avg score 4.205
Hole 5 - avg score 4.788 (only hole on the course where the field averaged under par)
Hole 6 - avg score 3.327

To me, that is perfect Donald Ross give and take – medium, hard-ish, easy, then hard. The shots into those four greens couldn’t be more varied: Short-ish iron into 3, long iron into 4, reachable par 5, and a tough long one shotter. Perfect flow, always posing a different question to the golfer, not allowing him to get into some kind of set rhythm.

I like it a lot more than a) the back-to-back mugging that the 5th and 6th provided in years gone by and b) the fact that two wedge holes (3 and 4) were spilt apart by making the 4th into a long par 4. 

Honestly, who would argue that this isn’t the better set up?

hhuffines

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2014, 08:15:02 PM »
But will the Pinehurst people let it stay that way for members and guests?

Ran Morrissett

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2014, 09:03:53 AM »
My Good Man,

As best I know, no final determination has been made yet; they wanted to see how it played out in the championship. They might even give the golfer options: your first round holes 4 and 5 play to par of 4/5 and next round it is 5/4. Cumbersome perhaps but cool.

It is weird to go from the ~hardest hole on the course to the easiest (and what that means to the psyche of the course) but we all think 13 at Augusta is the best hole on that course and it typically ranks in the top 2 or 3 easiest holes each and every Masters.

Are you in town? Heading out there now. Call/text my cell 910.528.5210 if you are (and it will be on me on the grounds).

Best,

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2014, 09:12:52 AM »
Ran,

The hole always had that "Redan" like quality as a long par 4 where you landed the ball short and let it feed to the green, not unlike # 13 at PV.

It was always a difficult approach with dire consequences associated with being left.

I usually played my second with anything from a 3-wood to a 4-iron.

As a lengthened par 5, the third shot has to be very interesting since the golfer can either fly it to the hole, hit a normal aerial approach or a knocked down punched approach.  Despite your inability to properly hit those shots, I'll accept your word that it's very intriquing from 120 and in.

Stay well.

P.S.  I've been thinking about taking Yoga to improve my flexibility, what do you think ?

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2014, 09:18:27 PM »
Given how early it falls in the round, I have never seen a 5th hole play such a pivotal role as what we saw today. Clearly out of sorts, Kaymer’s spectacular eagle righted the ship. I assume he goes on to win, deservedly so as he is playing the best. 

Nonetheless, this thought nags at me: If the tees on 5 weren’t so much forward as they were today (some fifty yards from the back), Kaymer wouldn’t have had the opportunity to eagle the 5th. The forward tee + downwind + spectacular iron = eagle BUT the forward tee is DEFINITELY part of the equation.

We’ll never know but what would a conventional par on the 5th played at 580 yards (bad drive, forced lay-up, pitch on and likely 2 putts) have meant to Kaymer’s bruised psyche versus the eagle that he cashed in on from the ~530 yard tees?

Certainly the forward tee allowed for one of the great shots in US Open history to occur. Then again, an eagle in the US Open after a poor drive seems a bite off. All I know for sure is that the spotlight shined very brightly on the course set up today as well as a great 1/2 par hole.

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2014, 10:08:24 PM »
I can't tell you how much I love the 5th. Well, I guess I just did. I remember vividly walking up on the tee the first time, taking in the vista, and exclaiming, "Now, this is what a golf hole is supposed to look like." Sort of an "ur-hole," a hole that matches whatever Platonic ideal is drilled into our heads or imprinted when we are in our atavistic golf nests.

And so I say unto you: it doesn't need validation by floggers!
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Best of Golf: The 5th at Pinehurst No. 2
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2014, 10:13:36 PM »


P.S.  I've been thinking about taking Yoga to improve my flexibility, what do you think ?

Yoga is okay but Pilates is amazing.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

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