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Jason Topp

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Do any US Courses have heather?
« on: May 28, 2014, 10:03:39 AM »
I have heard plenty of people describe no-mow areas of US courses as having heather but they are demonstrating they do not know the meaning of the term.  It would seem there has to be somewhere here with the plant but I cannot name any.
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Dan Kelly

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 10:24:28 AM »
Quote from: Jason Topp on May 28, 2014, 10:03:39 AM
I have heard plenty of people describe no-mow areas of US courses as having heather but they are demonstrating they do not know the meaning of the term.  It would seem there has to be somewhere here with the plant but I cannot name any.

Just an interesting site I stumbled on while looking into the question you asked:

http://www.cheviot-trees.co.uk/info%20centre/heathland_restoration_conservation.html
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Rich Goodale

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 12:30:28 PM »
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 01:45:05 PM »
Some of the back nine holes at Forest Dunes play over a ground cover plant that is heather like.  So much that those holes reminded me of the heathery courses south of London.  Wispy fescue and that heather-like plant. 
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 02:47:19 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on May 28, 2014, 01:45:05 PM
Some of the back nine holes at Forest Dunes play over a ground cover plant that is heather like.  So much that those holes reminded me of the heathery courses south of London.  Wispy fescue and that heather-like plant. 

It may be somewhat reminiscent of heather, but it's not heather.

I have not seen anything in the U.S. that would qualify as "heathland" at all.  Including [especially] the course I built in Myrtle Beach that was named "Heathland".  [The "Moorland" course there is not on a moor, either.]
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Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 03:07:14 PM »
If we're taking a broad view of what counts as heather, Augusta National has heather!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ericaceae


The Ericaceae are a family, commonly known as the heath or heather family, of flowering plants found most commonly in acid and infertile growing conditions. The family is large, with roughly 4000 species spread across 126 genera, making it the 14th-most-speciose family of flowering plants.[2] The many well-known and economically important members of the Ericaceae include the cranberry, blueberry, huckleberry, azalea, rhododendron, and various common heaths and heathers (Erica, Cassiope, Daboecia, and Calluna for example)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 03:10:20 PM by Duncan Cheslett »
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Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 03:14:47 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on May 28, 2014, 02:47:19 PM
I have not seen anything in the U.S. that would qualify as "heathland"

So in a country the size of the US you don't have any heathland and have next to no linksland either?!

I don't know why you bother building golf courses over there at all!!

 ;D
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 03:17:46 PM by Duncan Cheslett »
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jeffwarne

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 03:22:06 PM »
The Bridge has quite a bit of heather on the property, mostly in the areas surrounding the old race track where it has had 50-60 years to slowly creep in. There is certainly more now than there was 13 years ago when I started here,as the property has gone from heavily wooded, to not.
It is incredibly fragile and is growing  in very sterile sandy soil, and as much as I would like for there to be more of it nearer play, it would not stand up to traffic well at all.
I've pointed it out to members as we play the course and the response was........crickets ::) ::) ;)
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Philip Caccamise

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 05:17:59 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on May 28, 2014, 02:47:19 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on May 28, 2014, 01:45:05 PM
Some of the back nine holes at Forest Dunes play over a ground cover plant that is heather like.  So much that those holes reminded me of the heathery courses south of London.  Wispy fescue and that heather-like plant. 

It may be somewhat reminiscent of heather, but it's not heather.

I have not seen anything in the U.S. that would qualify as "heathland" at all.  Including [especially] the course I built in Myrtle Beach that was named "Heathland".  [The "Moorland" course there is not on a moor, either.]

Nor is the Parkland course at Legends at all representative of a classic parkland course.

Regardless of the name, I will be playing there over July 4th weekend, if it makes you feel any better!
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Chris DeToro

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 06:31:47 PM »
There are quite a few courses in Michigan, including Battle Creek CC and Muskegon CC, that have put in heather-like grass to frame fairways and restore a look from the past
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JLahrman

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 06:34:43 PM »
No, but I've had a couple.

BADA-BING
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2014, 06:54:02 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on May 28, 2014, 02:47:19 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on May 28, 2014, 01:45:05 PM
Some of the back nine holes at Forest Dunes play over a ground cover plant that is heather like.  So much that those holes reminded me of the heathery courses south of London.  Wispy fescue and that heather-like plant. 

It may be somewhat reminiscent of heather, but it's not heather.

I have not seen anything in the U.S. that would qualify as "heathland" at all.  Including [especially] the course I built in Myrtle Beach that was named "Heathland".  [The "Moorland" course there is not on a moor, either.]

That's why I said "heather-like!"   ;D
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2014, 09:13:18 PM »
Quote from: Chris DeToro on May 28, 2014, 06:31:47 PM
There are quite a few courses in Michigan, including Battle Creek CC and Muskegon CC, that have put in heather-like grass to frame fairways and restore a look from the past

Chris:

Heather is a woody plant -- a shrub which has some varieties that grow as a ground cover.  It's not a grass.  Lots of courses in Michigan refer to long grass as "heather" but it is emphatically NOT heather.  Take a look at Ran's profiles of places like Sunningdale or Walton Heath to see what the real thing looks like.
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Andy Treen

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 09:28:00 PM »
While living on Nantucket traveling from town to Sconset the island's interior lands are described as heathland or moorsland.  Sankaty Head overlooks the moors.  In places holes are seperated by what we called "scrub" oak.  It was also called gorse by some.  Not having experienced golf abroad... I rely on others.

- Andy
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Jason Topp

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2014, 10:57:19 PM »
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JC Urbina

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2014, 08:49:49 AM »
Jason,

I had Tom Jefferson from the resort get me a few pots of heather to plant on the bunkers edges on the inside of the Cape on #9 at Old Macdonald. It was a supplement to the other plants we had transplanted in the area. They are still growing but not as prolific as you see on the golf courses in the UK.  It must take several years for it to fill in. Tom has planted heather in and around the resort in several places and it seems to be doing well. I guess a lot of  patients is required when dealing with this type of plant.
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John McCarthy

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2014, 11:44:03 AM »
Nevermind
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The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
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Jason Topp

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2014, 04:43:48 PM »
Quote from: JC Urbina on May 30, 2014, 08:49:49 AM
Jason,

I had Tom Jefferson from the resort get me a few pots of heather to plant on the bunkers edges on the inside of the Cape on #9 at Old Macdonald. It was a supplement to the other plants we had transplanted in the area. They are still growing but not as prolific as you see on the golf courses in the UK.  It must take several years for it to fill in. Tom has planted heather in and around the resort in several places and it seems to be doing well. I guess a lot of  patients is required when dealing with this type of plant.

Thanks Jim.  It will be interesting to see if it works.
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Bryan Icenhower

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2014, 05:28:11 PM »
I'm read where Hidden Creek tried to plant some from a local blueberry farm but assume it didn't take as I have not seen any around the course. Then again, I'm no botanist so maybe it does exist somewhere on the course. Maybe Pat or one of the longer tenured members has more info.
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BCowan

Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2014, 09:17:30 PM »
Photos by Jeff Warne (The Bridges I think)

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Michael Whitaker

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2014, 07:29:05 AM »
The scientific name for "Heather" is Calluna Vulgaris. The stuff is like wire:

« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 07:39:25 AM by Michael Whitaker »
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Michael Whitaker

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2014, 07:48:21 AM »
From a texture and playability point of view the closest thing I've seen to Heather in the States is Blue Rug Juniper:

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"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Bill Jones

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2014, 08:44:00 AM »
The name of the plant is "hudsonia tomentosa" at The Bridge
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jeffwarne

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Re: Do any US Courses have heather?
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2014, 02:19:59 PM »
Quote from: Bill Jones on June 02, 2014, 08:44:00 AM
The name of the plant is "hudsonia tomentosa" at The Bridge

commonly called beach heather, though evidently not "actually" heather after a google search
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey
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