Kingsbarns

[Bob_Huntley]

Going back to the reason why one hears very little about playing Kingsbarns when blotted out of the ballot. Is it the expense, or it is not up to snuff for the Links experience?

I'll throw in my opinion if the thread takes hold.

Bob

[Rich Goodale]

My understanding, Bob, is that Kingsbarns is almost as busy as the Old Course these days.  Could be easier to just play the Jubilee and/or get blootered at Ma Bell's....

[mike_beene]

I love the place. It is beautiful and has played plenty linksy the 5 or 6 times I have been there. I didn't realize it was manufactured until someone told me. The bonus is they let you play as far back as you want. I prefer it to the New course.

[Bob_Huntley]

I love the place. It is beautiful and has played plenty linksy the 5 or 6 times I have been there. I didn't realize it was manufactured until someone told me. The bonus is they let you play as far back as you want. I prefer it to the New course.

Mike,

You are a man after of my own heart. This was a an old potato field and that became a very good golf course. I would rather play it on a regular basis than either the  New or Jubilee. I would add that I do have an advantage in not having to pay the full tariff.

Bob

[Ed Brzezowski]

We always make a point of playing Kingsbarns on our trips across the pond.  Love the 12th hole. Always treated well by the staff and the bar keepers. Great views of Crail too.

[Jim Tang]

I really enjoyed Kingsbarns last summer.  It was my first round of golf in Scotland and a great intro to a week long trip.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike,

You are a man after of my own heart. This was a an old potato field and that became a very good golf course. I would rather play it on a regular basis than either the  New or Jubilee. I would add that I do have an advantage in not having to pay the full tariff.

Bob

Bob:

I would not disagree with any of the above, but is not being better than the New or Jubilee course a fairly low bar to clear?

How would you compare Kingsbarns to the other top-10 Scottish courses?

[Ben Malach]

I will be one of the decenting voices then. I would way rather play Crail, Leven, Elie, Lundin or the New. Kingsbarns I feel has become the official other tee time in Fife for visitors. Which is to bad because personally after playing a lot of golf there last year it does not bring as much of smile to my face a any of the other courses. I also think The New is a course that is a huge grower. I started out being indifferent to it but by the end of my time there I was enamoured with the golf course.

[Bob_Huntley]

Mike,

You are a man after of my own heart. This was a an old potato field and that became a very good golf course. I would rather play it on a regular basis than either the  New or Jubilee. I would add that I do have an advantage in not having to pay the full tariff.

Bob

Bob:

I would not disagree with any of the above, but is not being better than the New or Jubilee course a fairly low bar to clear?

How would you compare Kingsbarns to the other top-10 Scottish courses?

Tom,

In my own perverse opinion it does not better TOC, Muirfield, Dornoch or Turnberry but it does please me more than the charms of Cruden, N.Berwick, Prestwick and the  muscle of Carnoustie.  I think of it as a tie with Western Gailes.

Bob

[Ryan Coles]

I think Kingsbarns is under appreciated and people are sniffy about it due to the price. The Lundin's and Leven's are the courses that are over priced and over rated due to location. I played Lundin the day after Kingsbarns last year and spent the day thinking how bleak, low key, and scruffy everything was and wishing I was back at Kingsbarns. Harsh, but I'm being honest.

Kingsbarns lacks nothing other than history. It is very playable, walkable, scenic with a variety of exhilarating holes. Sure it lacks history, but I dont play history, I play golf.

I'd rather pay the greenfee and have one round at Kingsbarns (or Castle Stuart) than 3 days at Lundin, Leven and Crail. There are loads of good links courses of that ilk. There are very few Kingsbarns.

[Gary Slatter]

Ryan, sorry you prefer Kingsbarns so much over Crail Lundin or Leven.  It took me a dozen rounds before I liked KB, and only when it is dry.  Around the Dunhill it is in good condition.  The other courses you can play twice the same day in the same time as 18 at KB, and really enjoy golf as it used to be.  I would add Elie too.

KB is almost as busy as the Old Course, when it is open.  And it is almost as good as Carnoustie, but not.  KB is ten times as good as the Jubilee, IMHO.  I still would rank the Barns ahead of any Castle Course.  If the soil were sandier at Kingsbarns it would be better, seems they use more nitrogen than most courses in the area, which to me means the ball doesn't run as expected.

[Matt MacIver]

I have limited experience but love Kingsbarns, would eagerly play there for the rest of my days. In that it costs so much, would I play it again vs Levin/Lunden or Elie for the first time?  I really struggle with that.  

The best links in Scotland, save Turnberry, don't have a view, so when KB plays like a links it's Pebble Beach meets TOC, at least for the marketing department and I mean that in a good way.

One poster years ago disparaged the merits of KBs awesome #6, I couldn't wrap my head around that.

[Mark Pearce]

I played Kingsbarns for the first time last year.  There's no doubt that I enjoyed it but I can't help feeling that Ryan and others are more swayed by the (spectacular) views than some of the actual golf.  I think, cleverly, that it has been designed to flatter your game.  I played averagely and found myself level par after 9 holes.  Playing as I was I would have been worse at any of the second tier courses being mentioned.  There's also something that still feels artificial about some of the holes, particularly the 18th, which I didn't like at all.  There's also the fact that the atmosphere remains that of a resort golf course, rather than a golf club. 

One round at KB or 3 at Elie, Lundin or Leven (or one at each)?  A no-brainer in my book.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I really love Kingsbarns. And whilst I think it has been surpassed in terms of shaping and internal aesthetics, I consider it a landmark project in terms of golf design in Europe because it dragged us out of that 80's and 90's design style.

In that way, it is to Europe what Sand Hills is to the US.

Strategically, there's a fair amount going on too. It's a fun course to play.... But it doesn't quite compare to the best of the classic links...

[Jud_T]

In my own perverse opinion it does not better TOC, Muirfield, Dornoch or Turnberry but it does please me more than the charms of Cruden, N.Berwick, Prestwick and the  muscle of Carnoustie.  I think of it as a tie with Western Gailes.

Can't fathom playing KB over Prestwick personally.  Best manufactured modern course is not something I get on a transatlantic flight to see, but we're long on very good modern courses and woefully short of real links on this side of the pond.  There's a distinction between which course is "better" and which course you'd want to play on a return to the home of golf.  I suspect the perspective of a local might be somewhat different once you get beyond cost.

[Niall C]

I have limited experience but love Kingsbarns, would eagerly play there for the rest of my days. In that it costs so much, would I play it again vs Levin/Lunden or Elie for the first time?  I really struggle with that.  

The best links in Scotland, save Turnberry, don't have a view, so when KB plays like a links it's Pebble Beach meets TOC, at least for the marketing department and I mean that in a good way.

One poster years ago disparaged the merits of KBs awesome #6, I couldn't wrap my head around that.

Matt

Re the 6th at KB, That was probably me. Bit of a field until you get anywhere near the green. Unfortunately some designers seem to think that "rumple" makes up for lack of feature. Agree with Mark's comments above and indeed Jud's. Nice but not really what I'm after.

Niall

[Jim Franklin]

I had the BEST caddy ever at Kingsbarns. Loved the course and the caddy-experience certainly helped. Some fat, bald musician....

[Paul Jones]

Most people that I have talked to that just don't get The Old Course, liked Kingsbarns the most.  I played both and loved them both, but only want to go back and play TOC.

[Tom_Doak]

I have limited experience but love Kingsbarns, would eagerly play there for the rest of my days. In that it costs so much, would I play it again vs Levin/Lunden or Elie for the first time?  I really struggle with that.  

The best links in Scotland, save Turnberry, don't have a view, so when KB plays like a links it's Pebble Beach meets TOC, at least for the marketing department and I mean that in a good way.

One poster years ago disparaged the merits of KBs awesome #6, I couldn't wrap my head around that.

Matt

Re the 6th at KB, That was probably me. Bit of a field until you get anywhere near the green. Unfortunately some designers seem to think that "rumple" makes up for lack of feature. Agree with Mark's comments above and indeed Jud's. Nice but not really what I'm after.

Niall

I thought he was referring to me.  I like the options off the tee, but the water hazard hidden behind the green is a total turn-off, particularly on a half-wedge approach shot.

[Jim Sherma]

Kingsbarns is certainly not the "Scottish Experience" in terms of the parking lot, pro-shop, practice area or much of anything else. Saying that, it is compelling golf in my opinion. There are many real good shots that you are asked to hit and the the scenery is obviously awesome. I last played it in 2011 and the turf quality was excellent and quite linksy.

Does it compare to some of the other courses that have been mentioned? Honestly, I think the comparison is just so different that it is tough to even make one. I consider Kingsbarns a great course that is one of the best that I have ever played. Based on two playings I can still visualize many of the shots on the course and consider it a must-play if you are in Fife.

However, I love the Scottish experience that a Crail or a Leven or the New Course gives me and would much rather spend a week at course/town like those than a week at Kingsbarns. From a pure golf standpoint I'm not sure any of these links are "better" than Kingsbarns, my gut says they are not. They do supply a pure golf experience that overrides all of the greatness that Kingsbarns has though. Would I fly over to only play Kingsbarns for a stretch of days - probably not although I would want to play it again if I was over there. Would I fly over to spend a week at Crail, Elie, St Andrews or Leven, most definitely yes.

[Ryan Coles]

I played Kingsbarns for the first time last year.  There's no doubt that I enjoyed it but I can't help feeling that Ryan and others are more swayed by the (spectacular) views than some of the actual golf.  I think, cleverly, that it has been designed to flatter your game.  I played averagely and found myself level par after 9 holes.  Playing as I was I would have been worse at any of the second tier courses being mentioned.  There's also something that still feels artificial about some of the holes, particularly the 18th, which I didn't like at all.  There's also the fact that the atmosphere remains that of a resort golf course, rather than a golf club. 

One round at KB or 3 at Elie, Lundin or Leven (or one at each)?  A no-brainer in my book.

Mark

There is no doubt than in anything other than a gale, the course is easy. Lots of the slopes do indeed flatter the golfer. You're also correct about the beauty, it does sway me massively. This is why I love courses like Dornoch and Brora, and wouldn't rush back to Lytham and Hoylake.

I find the newer "links" courses have very few poor holes. Lundin I thought had at least half a dozen, some of which aren't really links. I have some very solid links courses on my doorstep. When I travel, I want beautiful or spectacular. I think most people do, outside of perhaps this discussion group.

[Jon Wiggett]

I really like KB and having seen the site before construction it is impressive what they have managed. Fun and attention holding golf with the last being the only hole that I would say is poor. This does however detract considerably from the experience and it is a shame they have not fixed it.

Ryan,

Lytham and Hoylake do not offer as much eye candy as KB but then again GCA should not be judged on the beauty of the surroundings but on the quality of the course and golfing challenge. To be considered a true links KB still needs to develop the caravan ark however

Jon

[Ed Brzezowski]

Hello Jon,
May I ask why you think 18 is a bad hole? Yes it is a bit plainer than the balance of the course but I think it's a good hole. Depending upon weather I have hit anywhere from a hybrid to a wedge to the green. I have witnessed some real train wrecks with shots coming up short and players attempting some heroic recovery shots. If the hole is located in the front of the green precise iron play is required to have a reasonable chance at a birdie. If in the back and you overclub that downhill down wind chip is really nasty.

What am I missing?

ed

[Niall C]

I have limited experience but love Kingsbarns, would eagerly play there for the rest of my days. In that it costs so much, would I play it again vs Levin/Lunden or Elie for the first time?  I really struggle with that.  

The best links in Scotland, save Turnberry, don't have a view, so when KB plays like a links it's Pebble Beach meets TOC, at least for the marketing department and I mean that in a good way.

One poster years ago disparaged the merits of KBs awesome #6, I couldn't wrap my head around that.

Matt

Re the 6th at KB, That was probably me. Bit of a field until you get anywhere near the green. Unfortunately some designers seem to think that "rumple" makes up for lack of feature. Agree with Mark's comments above and indeed Jud's. Nice but not really what I'm after.

Niall

I thought he was referring to me.  I like the options off the tee, but the water hazard hidden behind the green is a total turn-off, particularly on a half-wedge approach shot.

Tom

I won't fight you for the distinction however let me confess when I read Matt's quote I immediately thought he was talking about the long par 5 (12th ?). Clearly a caffeine deficiency on my part when I read his post. Thinking now of the hole he was talking about, looks good on paper, looks good on the tee however in the number of times I've played it I've never got anywhere near taking advantage of the shoot down on to the green. I've always ended up shy of that and having a fairly unsatisfactory blind short iron approach, so ultimately not really a fan of that hole.

Niall

[Thomas Dai]

Per their website the green fee (1st May-16th Nov) is £215 (I believe members of Scottish clubs used to get a substantial discount - is this still the case?).

Golf Professionals (PGA) and BIGGA* members at £78 and Junior golfers (under 18) at £65.

£215 for 18-holes, that's like £12 per hole!

Kingsbarns may be an amazing course, it may be in amazing condition, you may get treated like God, and if I could get to play it for a more sensible price, ie significantly less or on a business/society freebee, that would be different, but......£12 per hole. No way!

atb

*greenkeepers