NCAA at Prairie Dunes

[Jud_T]

The course looks fantastic.  For those in the know, what are the chances of your average 15 hdcp getting around with 1 ball?

[Rees Milikin]

I hope Golf Channel has a web archive of this tournament, I would love to watch it again.

[Matthew Rose]

I hope the pushcarts become a little more socially acceptable in this country. One thing that stood out during the years I spent in Australia is that everybody walks and a lot of them take pushcarts. There doesn't seem to be the stigma that there is here. Maybe this will help.

As for the course...  been on my bucket list for a long time. Just have to find a way on it.

[Sean Leary]

The course looks fantastic.  For those in the know, what are the chances of your average 15 hdcp getting around with 1 ball?

Almost zero, unless you are the straight hitting 15 handicapper that just doesn't hit it far enough.

[Ronald Montesano]

Great final match in semifinal #2...Walker Cup boys Rodgers and Niebrugge for all the coffee.

[BHoover]

Based solely upon what I've seen on television, because I haven't played either, does anyone else think that Prairie Dunes resembles a Sandbelt course, both in terms of appearance and playability? Can anyone tell whether I'm right or way off base? I'm well aware that I could be wrong, but from certain views, it appears to be almost a Sandbelt course stuck in the middle of the USA.

[Mike Sweeney]

Based solely upon what I've seen on television, because I haven't played either, does anyone else think that Prairie Dunes resembles a Sandbelt course, both in terms of appearance and playability? Can anyone tell whether I'm right or way off base? I'm well aware that I could be wrong, but from certain views, it appears to be almost a Sandbelt course stuck in the middle of the USA.

I think it is very unique, especially the late night views we saw of #10. However, it looks very narrow in a Merion style. Not from trees but rather from lost balls and hacking out rough.

Neither Merion nor PD need to be narrow to be great, but similar to Newport CC, they seem to be USGAed.

Merion is 2 hours, Newport 2 1/2 hours, will pass on Prairie Dunes until I get to a 5 handicap, for the first time.......

[DMoriarty]

It could/should be wider in places but it really isn't that narrow.  It just seems that way because the gunch is death. 

[Terry Lavin]

It could/should be wider in places but it really isn't that narrow.  It just seems that way because the gunch is death. 

That's fair.

[Mike_Young]

Our bagboy rep said the calls started coming yesterday from club pros...buy pull cart stock...this is gonna make it take off...

[Patrick_Mucci]

It could/should be wider in places but it really isn't that narrow. 
It just seems that way because the gunch is death. 

David,

The course/fairways were narrowed, intentionally, and never returned to their previous widths.

With "death" as you call it, looming at the flanks, the fairways should be wider.

The fairways should be widened, with the non-gunch rough shrunk, as the gunch will remain in place.

It's too penal the way it is.

Everyone watching the NCAA's seems to forget that the members and their guests aren't as good as the best golfers on the best college golf teams in the country.

[Sean Leary]

It could/should be wider in places but it really isn't that narrow. 
It just seems that way because the gunch is death. 

David,

The course/fairways were narrowed, intentionally, and never returned to their previous widths.

With "death" as you call it, looming at the flanks, the fairways should be wider.

The fairways should be widened, with the non-gunch rough shrunk, as the gunch will remain in place.

It's too penal the way it is.

Everyone watching the NCAA's seems to forget that the members and their guests aren't as good as the best golfers on the best college golf teams in the country.

Did you see my posts and question above? Would appreciate your thoughts and perspective.

[Patrick_Mucci]

It could/should be wider in places but it really isn't that narrow. 
It just seems that way because the gunch is death. 

David,

The course/fairways were narrowed, intentionally, and never returned to their previous widths.

With "death" as you call it, looming at the flanks, the fairways should be wider.

The fairways should be widened, with the non-gunch rough shrunk, as the gunch will remain in place.

It's too penal the way it is.

Everyone watching the NCAA's seems to forget that the members and their guests aren't as good as the best golfers on the best college golf teams in the country.

Did you see my posts and question above? Would appreciate your thoughts and perspective.

Sean,

Yes.

I addressed your comments in reply # 64 and agree with most of what you said.

[Chris Cupit]

So  everybody raving about Prairie Dunes doesn't object to narrowed fairways ?

Not sure what you are talking about.  Fairways are very generous.  I am estimating 40 yards for fairways in many places and width from "bunch to bunch" is even wider.  I played there about two years ago and I did not notice that they did anything special re: narrowing fairways of this event-just some new tees  

[Bill Vogeney]

So  everybody raving about Prairie Dunes doesn't object to narrowed fairways ?

I am not a straight driver of the ball. I believe the fairways are very generous.

[Chris Cupit]

Chris,

I know originally the plan was to have the teams 54 hole qualifying conclude on Sunday with the top 40 individuals competing for the individual title on Monday, and then match play beginning today.  Since this is the first year with that format, I assume that was a Golf Channel decision to make the Monday round like a real tournament with the leaders coming in at the end.  Obviously, the weather prevented that from happening. 

In the end, I think it made better tv to have the team qualifying alongside the individual championship.  Of course, if there hadn't been any individuals in contention at the end, it may have been different, but I thought the drama was much better the way it worked.  Do you think in the future they may stick to that format, and have the team and individual event conclude together. 

Golf Channel could not have been more gracious or understanding of the players/coaches overwhelming desire to have the team competition be the primary driver of the championship.  They understood the desire to have 54 holes determine the final 8 teams even to the "detriment" of the individual part.  

I agree that the drama of the team competition is very compelling--more so than the individual thing would have been.  Great event and drama as it turned out

[Chris Cupit]

The round ruining nature of gulch can certainly be frustrating.  I'm actually surprised there weren't more extremely high numbers as a result of wayward drives this week.  I do know one of the guys on Illinois made a 10 in the first round and was 1 under for the rest of the event.

Also, does anyone know why Alex Burge of Illinois was DQ'd?  I saw a tweet that he took a lost ball, but a competitor found it and didn't tell him until after the round.  Can't believe that is true and someone would knowingly do that.

He was DQ'd for a violation of 27/13 and there was NO CONTROVERSY at all.  He realized he made a mistake and the DQ was "by the book".  He played a provisional ball after hitting one ball in the high fescue.  Despite his pleas to "not look for the ball" a spectator did identify a ball.  Instead of going over to identify the ball and verify if it was his or not, he failed to do so and continued play with the P-ball.  Facts were not in dispute and after a discussion in the scoring tent, he was unfortunately DQ'd.  Thankfully, his score was not a counting score

[Patrick_Mucci]

So  everybody raving about Prairie Dunes doesn't object to narrowed fairways ?

Not sure what you are talking about.  Fairways are very generous.  I am estimating 40 yards for fairways in many places and width from "bunch to bunch" is even wider.  I played there about two years ago and I did not notice that they did anything special re: narrowing fairways of this event-just some new tees  

Chris,

Go back and remeasure # 6, # 8, # 16 and # 17.

I think you'll find them closer to 30 yards, by far, than 40 yards.

[Patrick_Mucci]

So  everybody raving about Prairie Dunes doesn't object to narrowed fairways ?

I am not a straight driver of the ball. I believe the fairways are very generous.

Bill,

What width do you consider "very generous"

[Chris Cupit]

I know it is a great course, I do, I do, I do, but yesterday afternoon I watched every second of the coverage while monitoring this site and was shocked at the lack of discussion of how the course is maintained.  The unrecoverable gunch, narrow fairways and a shute on a par three that you not only have to hit through, you have to hit under.  Rich Harvest Links anyone?  Since I know it is a great course it is my opinion that the TV coverage did the course a great disservice.  I don't get it.  Oh, and were the greens slowed down for the event because where were the issues for these young players.  Could blame the rain for the course being soft but if that is the case the fairways are even that much more too narrow.

Since I am most certainly wrong the course must not have looked good on TV.

John--i love you but to compare PD to Rich Harvest is flat out STUPID--not even remotely in the same ball park.  I am not a fan of the chute on 15 but consider that the expert golfer is hitting a 6 iron mostly there.  They are not concerned about a "narrow" chute but instead an overhanging limb.

You guys that think the fairways are narrow surprise me.  Width on most holes between the bunch is 60 -80 yards.  With little wind like we had this week, narrowness was not an issue at all.  With 15-20 MPH winds the wide (yes wide) fairways do play a little tight but nothing like what you guys are suggesting--unless you are not driving the ball well

Many great scores on the 63-65 range.  Both my matches today were under par as well.  PD is a fabulous golf course--this is what golf should look like

[Chris Cupit]

So  everybody raving about Prairie Dunes doesn't object to narrowed fairways ?

Not sure what you are talking about.  Fairways are very generous.  I am estimating 40 yards for fairways in many places and width from "bunch to bunch" is even wider.  I played there about two years ago and I did not notice that they did anything special re: narrowing fairways of this event-just some new tees  

Chris,

Go back and remeasure # 6, # 8, # 16 and # 17.

I think you'll find them closer to 30 yards, by far, than 40 yards.

After working the course for a walk thru on Thursday, 6 holes on Friday, 48 holes Saturday, 36 Sunday, 36 Monday and 34 today I feel pretty good about my estimates.  Hole #6 is WIDE where those kids hit it (maybe not your drive zone ).  And believe to or not, we had to wait on the tee as some kids actually went for the green and put it in the green side bunker!

Fairway is absolutely 40 yards plus wide past the left bunker--NO DOUBT.  #8 is narrow at the 350 mark.  Hole played 468.  Most kids hit hybrids or 3 woods to the flatfish portion short of where fairway bends right.  Average play I saw was a 3 wood and 6 iron.

#16 is similar.  From new tee at 429 most kids hit 3 wood, hybrid or iron to the flat portion short of both FW bunkers.  Few tried driver and thoe that did brought bunkers and gunch into play as the line had to be over the right bunker.  One stroke play round I had Patrick Reed.  After he played a driver over the right bunker he had between 50-60 yards for his approach

#17 is narrow and plays blind to a fairway canted away from.  The 7th hole was a driver and 8-Wedge and 17 was very reachable at 523 as well.  Drivers, 3 woods and hybrids in equal number.  Fairway is absolutely 30 yards wide (though to to hit because of above).  Still, great drives resulted in iron second shots.  Balls in first or second cut meant a wedge, wedge approach.

[Chris Cupit]

One other point.  For these kids the bunch is not death.  We had unplayables but most of the time the player was able to advance the ball out quite well.  I was shocked at the number of times the player could play to and reach the green from the gunch.

One story--USC player Rico Hoey is in stroke play.  Drives in crap on the right of #7.  Swings at it, moves it 4 inches.  Drops under unplayable and still has a shot that I assume means a punch out.  He must lift the club up nearly vertically and come down right on top of it due to a bush behind his ball.  Has about 190.  Hits a 9 iron about 15 feet!!!  Damndest thing I ever saw. 


He missed his par putt

[Scott Warren]

With "death" as you call it, looming at the flanks, the fairways should be wider.

The fairways should be widened, with the non-gunch rough shrunk, as the gunch will remain in place.

It's too penal the way it is.

Everyone watching the NCAA's seems to forget that the members and their guests aren't as good as the best golfers on the best college golf teams in the country. [/color]

Less light rough, replaced by fairway, would mean more balls would enter the gunch.

The course is plenty wide.

[Chris Cupit]

Last thought about width:

Fairways were all a minimum of 35-40 yards wide.  There was a 4-6 first cut of rough, 20 yards or primary fescue on both sides and then, the gunch.  If I had a complaint it is that despite a drought, the fairways and roughs were LUSH.  Fairways did not play firm or fast and would not even without the rain.  (Greens would have been firmer but for the storms).

With little to no wind and lush fairways and rough the course played wide.  I had numerous members as walking scorers and despite the drought the normal maintenance practice seems to be to keep the fairways and "interior" roughs very green which help keep the balls out of the tall stuff.

Again--this is a GREAT, classic course that serious students of architecture should experience first hand. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

With "death" as you call it, looming at the flanks, the fairways should be wider.

The fairways should be widened, with the non-gunch rough shrunk, as the gunch will remain in place.

It's too penal the way it is.

Everyone watching the NCAA's seems to forget that the members and their guests aren't as good as the best golfers on the best college golf teams in the country. [/color]

Less light rough, replaced by fairway, would mean more balls would enter the gunch.

That's not true.

The game is no longer played on the ground, it's an aerial game with little to no roll on more and more courses.

The course is plenty wide.

Since when is 30 yards in the DZ "plenty wide" ?