The overrated, underrated, or properly rated game

[Jason Thurman]

This game is simple. The person above you posts an architecturally relevant noun. You respond by deeming it overrated, underrated, or properly rated. Then name a noun of your own for the next person to evaluate.

I'll name the first:

The greens at Pebble Beach

[Cody Carroll]

Properly rated. I have never played, but from what I seem they are interesting, but I am not a huge fan of tiny greens.

Crowned greens

[Jud_T]

Potentially great in a Master's hands, a la 16 at Ravisloe, but generally overrated.

Water on Par 3's, e.g. Medinah #3.

[John Connolly]

Overrated. Too penal. Most make a double with a bad swing. And i think you meant medinah #3, 2nd hole.

Driveable par 4.

[Matthew Essig]

They are being used more and more and starting to become overrated. The drivable holes take away from what could possibly be an interesting/strategic drive and pitch hole, which seem to be increasingly rare nowadays.

Brutally difficult finishing hole

[Paul Carey]

Over rated.   Great finishing holes allow for birdies and bogeys.

Center line bunkers.

[Josh Stevens]

Properly rated for pros if there is sufficient width on either side and sufficient difference to each side for their to be a difference.  For average golfers probably overrated as we tend to just drive straight at em safe in the knowledge that straight is the last place the ball is likely to go.  Becoming a little too common.

Front to back sloping greens.

[Jud_T]

Underrated.  Not nearly enough of 'em IMO.  I love holes where the correct miss is long, probably cause they're so rare these days.

The Biarritz Template

[jeffwarne]

Firm

[jeffwarne]

Fast

[Nigel Islam]

Underrated.  Not nearly enough of 'em IMO.  I love holes where the correct miss is long, probably cause they're so rare these days.

The Biarritz Template

Not sure they really work all that well. (Its so hard to hit a 200 yard shot that straight for most golfers)  But just the swale is so awesome visually.

Robert Trent Jones

[Matthew Essig]

Firm: underrated.... it seems all too common for soft/green conditions (at least at many American courses)
Fast: properly rated; however, it is becoming overrated. I, and most people, enjoy faster conditions, but the speed should not compromise the intent of the architect. This seems to be a growing problem with the softening of contours nowadays.

Blind approach shots

[jeffwarne]

Firm: underrated.... it seems all too common for soft/green conditions (at least at many American courses)
Fast: properly rated; however, it is becoming overrated. I, and most people, enjoy faster conditions, but the speed should not compromise the intent of the architect. This seems to be a growing problem with the softening of contours nowadays.

Blind approach shots

agreed
 firm under rated -often in an attempt to get too much of the fast.

Fast over rated-first greens, now fairways.
People need grass to play off, and it is becoming increasingly a rare commodity at the more expensive clubs.
and as you say the greens issue

[AKikuchi]

Robert Trent Jones

In the general golfing public, overrated. On GCA, underrated. I have a feeling that will be the case for many of these answers.

forced carries

[Jason Thurman]

Forced carries - Underrated. Too much time is spent discussing how intimidating they are for high handicappers. Not enough time is spent discussing the satisfaction that high handicappers feel when they watch a good shot sail to safety on the other side. I've discussed this exact topic with many high handicappers and they generally enjoy forced carries provided they aren't too long to comfortably clear.

Renaissance Design

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Forced carries - Underrated. Too much time is spent discussing how intimidating they are for high handicappers. Not enough time is spent discussing the satisfaction that high handicappers feel when they watch a good shot sail to safety on the other side. I've discussed this exact topic with many high handicappers and they generally enjoy forced carries provided they aren't too long to comfortably clear.

Renaissance Design

On this site?  Properly rated (dare I whisper "slightly overrated?"...naw).  General golfing public?  Vastly underrated...still.  Whenever I run into a Denverite on a course up here in the mountains I ask if they've been to CommonGround.  Al large percentage have not, and have never heard of it.  Meanwhile they are paying exorbitant fees up here to play inferior courses with CG and Riverdale Dunes (Dye) down there.  I don't get it. 




Template holes

[Tom_Doak]

Template holes - overrated, here anyway.  They are oversimplifications of design that make it easy for someone with a little knowledge of golf architecture to pretend that he has a lot more.  That includes many architects, who deploy them for the same reason -- because they make the members feel "enlightened" and arguments about the merits of the design are neutered.  You're not allowed to criticize template holes, even on the grounds that they are unoriginal.

Tom Simpson


(P.S. to Jason:  if a forced carry is not too long for the average player to comfortably clear, then what is the merit of it?)

[Jim Franklin]

Underrated. I have not played any of his courses, but I am intrigued.




//RTJ's redesigns

[Josh Tarble]

RTJ was just answered a few comments ago...I think this is correct:

Robert Trent Jones

In the general golfing public, overrated. On GCA, underrated. I have a feeling that will be the case for many of these answers.

forced carries

Heathland Courses - I would actually say properly rated.  I would love to play several of them, but are they that much better than many other classic  designs?


Punchbowl Greens

[Jason Thurman]

(P.S. to Jason:  if a forced carry is not too long for the average player to comfortably clear, then what is the merit of it?)

I don't like forced carries that ask "Are you capable of hitting it this far?" If the answer is "No," then the round ends. That sucks.

I do, however, find that virtually all high handicappers I talk with enjoy the occasional forced carry that, while manageable with a good shot, still stirs some nervousness in their stomach as they stand over the ball. High handicappers hit a lot of shanked, topped, fat, and generally weak shots. They also rarely stuff approaches tight and rattle off highlight-reel shots. As a result, watching a solid hit fly over 115 yards of water and safely to the fairway on the other side is often one of the most satisfying moments they experience on a course. The merit of the feature is the extra dose of nervousness and excitement it adds for the player standing over the ball, along with the upside of feeling the satisfaction of meeting the challenge. "Short enough to comfortably clear" with a good shot doesn't preclude the high handicapper from feeling uncomfortable before he hits it.

Punchbowl Greens

Overrated. They stink.

16 at Cypress Point.

[Bill_McBride]

16th at Cypress Point.   

Properly rated I'd say, it's one of the iconic holes in golf.  Played it twice, never finished the hole.  Both times hit two drives that a- l-m-o-s-t made it across.  One actually made it across but on the beach beyond.  Both times I looked around for my caddy and both times he was halfway around the cove so I was done.   

Links courses

[Jason Topp]

Links courses

I will argue underated.  The combination of wind, firm turf and weather that is crisp yet comfortable is hard to beat. 

I am less sure about the next topic:

Wind

[Jud_T]

I'd say wind is underrated if it's the 1-3 club variety.  If it's blowing a steady 30+ mph it's overrated. 

Half Par Holes

[Josh Tarble]

I'd say wind is underrated if it's the 1-3 club variety.  If it's blowing a steady 30+ mph it's overrated.  

Half Par Holes

Properly rated - half under par holes are overrated because everyone likes a birdie.  half over par holes are underrated for the opposite reason.  Hence the properly rated.


Chicago as a golf town.

[Stephen Davis]

I'd say wind is underrated if it's the 1-3 club variety.  If it's blowing a steady 30+ mph it's overrated.  

Half Par Holes

Properly rated - half under par holes are overrated because everyone likes a birdie.  half over par holes are underrated for the opposite reason.  Hence the properly rated.


Chicago as a golf town.

Underrated. It is one of my favorite cities in the world for golf, however, many people over look its greatness.

The Old Course