[SteveOgulukian]

Forgive me if there is already a thread like this (didn't see any after running a search) but I thought it would be interesting, and fun, to start a discussion on what you view as the most overrated holes in golf, and why.

I'll start with the 17th at Pebble. Too small of a landing area on the green for a hole if that length and even though the surrounding views are great, the view from tee to green is boring, at best. Looks like you are in a flat park hitting at a pin out in the distance. I think it would be a fun hole if they elevated the tee box and shortened the hole.

[Josh Stevens]

At risk of offending, could you not say that about another dozen holes at Pebble?

The surrounding views are great but.....

[Patrick_Mucci]

I thought it would be interesting, and fun, to start a discussion on what you view as the most overrated holes in golf, and why.

I'll start with the 17th at Pebble.

YIKES

# 17 is a great hole.

Too small of a landing area on the green for a hole if that length and even though the surrounding views are great, the view from tee to green is boring, at best.


ONLY if you're playing from the wrong set of tees.
As for the view, is it not akin to a skyline green, with benefits at the periphery ?


Looks like you are in a flat park hitting at a pin out in the distance.

What's wrong with that.
Certainly you can't oppose variety

I think it would be a fun hole if they elevated the tee box and shortened the hole.

It IS a short hole if you play from the proper tees.

Elevating the tee box creates visual problems for the tee boxes behind the one you elevate, unless you elevate them higher.

What happened to minimalisim ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

At risk of offending, could you not say that about another dozen holes at Pebble?

Josh, why don't you identify that dozen for us.

The surrounding views are great but.....But WHAT ?

Have you ever played Pebble Beach ?

[BCowan]

At risk of offending, could you not say that about another dozen holes at Pebble?

The surrounding views are great but.....

Josh,  Be brave.

[J_ Crisham]

The only pedestrian hole at Pebble IMO is #1. The other 17 are pretty solid . Every time I go back and play PB I am amazed at the smallish size of every green. 14 is the only green I would like to see expanded by 30-40%. Anyone who complains about multiple holes has either never played there or just doesn't get great architecture.

[John Mayhugh]

The only pedestrian hole at Pebble IMO is #1. The other 17 are pretty solid . Every time I go back and play PB I am amazed at the smallish size of every green. 14 is the only green I would like to see expanded by 30-40%. Anyone who complains about multiple holes has either never played there or just doesn't get great architecture.

A complainer sure doesn't have the same tastes as me. I love the course, and it's for more than just the scenery. Not a fan of the cost, but that reduces my access, not my opinion of the architecture.

[Patrick_Mucci]

John,

I'm with you, I think the course is outstanding.

Lot's of great courses begin with fairly benign starting holes, so I'm not too harsh on # 1.

[BCowan]

The only pedestrian hole at Pebble IMO is #1. The other 17 are pretty solid . Every time I go back and play PB I am amazed at the smallish size of every green. 14 is the only green I would like to see expanded by 30-40%. Anyone who complains about multiple holes has either never played there or just doesn't get great architecture.

    I like small greens, but predominantly on inland courses.  So someone who doesn't like small greens on a coastal course doesn't get great architecture, okay..  People can have opinions, or is allowable opinion only allowed?  No desire to play pebble, sorry!  

   I like the non seaside holes there.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ben,

# 4 is a spectacular hole.

I'll pass commenting on # 5 since it's new.

# 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 may be one of the great stretches of golf in the world.

# 17 and # 18 aren't bad either.

[BCowan]

Ben,

# 4 is a spectacular hole.

I'll pass commenting on # 5 since it's new.

# 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 may be one of the great stretches of golf in the world.

# 17 and # 18 aren't bad either.

#17 really?  #6 blind shot with an ocean to the right?

[Nigel Islam]

Ben,

# 4 is a spectacular hole.

I'll pass commenting on # 5 since it's new.

# 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 may be one of the great stretches of golf in the world.

# 17 and # 18 aren't bad either.

#17 really?  #6 blind shot with an ocean to the right?

Yes 6 is a great hole. Ben I'm surprised you of all people would criticize a hole for being blind? It is one of the most terrifying and exhilarating shots (the second at 6) It is quite uphill too. I know I am in the minority, but I think 14 is also  one of the best three shot holes around. That green is ridiculously small, unfair, and just plain out awsome.

[BCowan]

Nigel,

   I love blind, except when a (large) body of water is involved.  Sorry.  I may like/love the shot against my will though.  

[Bill_McBride]

The shot up the hill on 6 might be blind, but left is the play, even if you can get up near the green in two. 

I don't understand any disrespect of Pebble, still top 10 for me.   The inland holes would be all stars anywhere else, just overshadowed by the ocean holes. 

[Nigel Islam]

Nigel,

   I love blind, except when a (large) body of water is involved.  Sorry.  I may like/love the shot against my will though.  

The hazard isn't really the ocean right it's the cliff in front of you and the excellent, well placed bunker on he left side of the layup zone. Plus when you get up to the hill and see the brilliance of 7,8, and 9.......I certainly understand people not wanting to play the course for a variety of reasons, but I personally don't think a lack of architectural merit is one of them.  I haven't played the course for 7 years, but I loved every minute of my two rounds.

[Nigel Islam]

The shot up the hill on 6 might be blind, but left is the play, even if you can get up near the green in two. 

I don't understand any disrespect of Pebble, still top 10 for me.   The inland holes would be all stars anywhere else, just overshadowed by the ocean holes. 

+1

[Keith OHalloran]

BCowan
It is very hard to believe that you don't like the 6th at Pebble. The hole is amazing. Feels like you are  taking an untenable position to defend your overall point,

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ben,

# 4 is a spectacular hole.

I'll pass commenting on # 5 since it's new.

# 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 may be one of the great stretches of golf in the world.

# 17 and # 18 aren't bad either.

#17 really? 

Yes, reallly.
It's a fabulous hole with a very interestingly configured green, with peril left and long.

#6 blind shot with an ocean to the right?

What's wrong with a blind shot ?
And, you have a tremendous amount of room to the left.
Usually, you get a directional assist from a caddy or friend.

[Patrick_Mucci]

If Pebble Beach charged $ 100 green fees, golfers would be lined up to Omaha to play it and it would be declared one of the top ten courses in the country...................... universally.

Like Donald Trump's hair, price is the primary objection to the architectural substance of the golf course.

[Nigel Islam]

If Pebble Beach charged $ 100 green fees, golfers would be lined up to Omaha to play it and it would be declared one of the top ten courses in the country...................... universally.

Like Donald Trump's hair, price is the primary objection to the architectural substance of the golf course.

Pat it IS declared one of the top ten courses in the country AND people almost line up to Omaha to play it. Because it IS REALLY THAT GOOD!

[Josh Stevens]

At risk of offending, could you not say that about another dozen holes at Pebble?

Josh, why don't you identify that dozen for us.

The surrounding views are great but.....But WHAT ?

Have you ever played Pebble Beach ?

Yes I have played pebble, albeit about 20 years ago, so I cant speak to how it may be today.

I found the experience quite special given the location and history, but trying to put that aside, I found the course wanting.  There are some amazing holes, but once away from the actual cliffs, the inland holes were nothing special.  Not bad holes as such, but pedestrian.  The fairways are nothing special, the greens are small and lacking in any real sophistication, the bunkers are not world class, not terribly strategic and of course, too many houses and cart paths and so not especially attractive to look at.  At that is the recollection after all these years.

[Brett Wiesley]

I'm uniformly impressed with the course on all levels.  I think 14 is a terrible green, and why not change it, they've modified the rest of the course.  Everyone knows the ocean holes when before they get there, but I was impressed with the other holes as well.  #1 is a nice opener, buy with the push up green, you could be in trouble early in the round.  #2 is soft, but the back to front sloped green is much quicker than you'd ever know until your 8 feet past the whole.  #3 is a great dog left.  #4 is awesome, and can be played some many ways, and is also distracting as it is your first oceanside hole.  The greatness is amplified by most of the non-ocean side holes still having visuals of the ocean, which are better than most advertised "ocean courses".

[Brett Wiesley]

Josh, maybe you should visit again.  The bunkers are very much in play, and penal as usually on the bail out side of the hole away from the ocean, and leave you with a green sloping away from you, and a shot usually back at the ocean!  Smart no?  If the cart paths were in the way too much, maybe you should have walked?  Fairways are okay?...#s 9 & 10 have a great banked angle which you need to factor into your drive.  I think its the variety that counts at Pebble.

[Josh Stevens]

Spot me the airfare and the greenfee and I will be pleased to reassess

[Tom_Doak]

The inland holes would be all stars anywhere else, just overshadowed by the ocean holes. 

Enough hyperbole.  I think Pebble is a great course -- a 9 in my book -- but the inland holes are a mixed bag:

2nd, 3rd, 13th, 14th, 16th -- good to very good
1st, 11th, 12th, 15th [as recently butchered] -- fair to poor

Many of these holes would be all stars at a Florida muni.  None of them would be all stars in Bandon or the Hamptons, or on any other top-100 course.

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