Pinehurst - what is a bunker?

[Josh Stevens]

Apologies if this has been already discussed.

Just been watching the fly overs, and I must say the place is looking stunning.  I question however what the USGA will do in defining what is or isn't a bunker as we have all these seamless transitions from sandy waste that are clearly not bunkers, into deeper sand pits which clearly are.

Looks lovely but how will they deal with the rules issue to avoid a repeat of Whistling Straits?

[Brent Hutto]

It is my understanding that only a certain very few bunkers will be "hazards" and the rest will be "through the green". There will be an official walking with each and every group who knows which is which and will answer any player questions.

[Joey Chase]

When I played there in December, my caddie told me that only the hazards completely surrounded by grass will be considered bunkers and all else will be simply waste area. 

[Bill_McBride]

We have a lot of waste areas at my club, where the definition has become this:  if there is a rake, it's a bunker. 

[Josh Stevens]

but if you look at the maps of Pinehurst, there are many areas where bunkers narrow and turn into thin slivers of sand that then carry on around a green or along a fairway.  The point being that the sand is continuous in many cases for hundreds of metres.  Where is the line drawn?

Can I also ask about some of the sandy waste around the greens.  Are the run offs built so that a ball toppling off the edge of a green stop on the short grass, or will it run into the sand. 

[Brent Hutto]

Josh,

Almost none of that will be considered "hazard". The only spots that are supposed to be "hazard" look like conventional bunikers where the entire bunker is surrounded by grass. If it's sand that flows into or is connected to some other sand, it will be "through the green".

[Cristian]

Josh,

Almost none of that will be considered "hazard". The only spots that are supposed to be "hazard" look like conventional bunikers where the entire bunker is surrounded by grass. If it's sand that flows into or is connected to some other sand, it will be "through the green".

I am curious. Does anybody know whether there will there be rakes in the conventional looking greenside bunkers which are not entirely surrounded by grass and therefore not a hazard?

[Craig Disher]

There are places where there is no grass between the waste area and the bunker/hazard. However, the distinction between the two is pretty obvious. The bunkers - at least during normal play - were raked. They also are easily identified as bunkers based on our usual understanding of what a bunker looks like - a sandy pit that is to some degree below normal ground level.

After a practice round or two, the players will know exactly where the bunkers are. This should not be a problem at all.

[Jason Thurman]

There are places where there is no grass between the waste area and the bunker/hazard. However, the distinction between the two is pretty obvious. The bunkers - at least during normal play - were raked. They also are easily identified as bunkers based on our usual understanding of what a bunker looks like - a sandy pit that is to some degree below normal ground level.

After a practice round or two, the players will know exactly where the bunkers are. This should not be a problem at all.

Bingo. We could play a GCA event there right now and every one of us would know when we were in a bunker and when we weren't, although a few might insist it's a waste area after hitting their shot out of the desire to avoid raking.

It's a bit sad that the competitors can't be expected to make the same distinction.

[Paul Carey]

When I played there in December, my caddie told me that only the hazards completely surrounded by grass will be considered bunkers and all else will be simply waste area. 

I heard the same thing and it was quite easy to figure out which was which.

[Wade Whitehead]

It is my understanding that only a certain very few bunkers will be "hazards" and the rest will be "through the green". There will be an official walking with each and every group who knows which is which and will answer any player questions.

What a ridiculous notion, that players should require a walking official to tell them when they can ground a club.  Set the rules, communicate them, and expect players to abide by them.

WW

[Brent Hutto]

It is my understanding that only a certain very few bunkers will be "hazards" and the rest will be "through the green". There will be an official walking with each and every group who knows which is which and will answer any player questions.

What a ridiculous notion, that players should require a walking official to tell them when they can ground a club.  Set the rules, communicate them, and expect players to abide by them.

WW

And then some meddling busybody calls in from in front of their TV the next day and gets the player disqualified.

I totally think the players ought to be on their own to police the Rules. But it doesn't work if the other six billion people on the planet are allowed to contravene the players after the fact.

[John Jeffreys]

There are 117 "maintained sand depressions" on course no. 2.  They will all be played as hazards. The bottoms will be raked as they currently are in what we have come to refer to as the royal Melbourne method.

[Howard Riefs]

Lots of confusion already from the players...

To avoid another Dustin Johnson moment, "rules officials following each group will make the final determination - often erring on the side of caution."

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/players-concerned-bunkers-pinehurst/

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central/davis-no-2-will-feature-waste-areas-and-bunkers/

[Chris_Hufnagel]

The Golf Channel had a good segment on No. 2 last night with Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw.  The discussion turned to this topic and both Mr. Crenshaw and Bill Coore were caught a little off guard about what the rule would be and what would be determined a bunker or waste area. Frankly, for about 10 seconds it was a little uncomfortable to watch - finally, and mercifully, Chamblee turned the discussion to the flipping of pars on #4 and #5...

I hope they get a good plan in place and effectively communicate it to the players - another DJ-type situation would be bad for golf and as was mentioned on another thread, lots of wasted time waiting for rulings isn't a good thing either...

[Brent Hutto]

After the Dustin Debacle at the PGA it's hard to imagine a sensible Tour player grounding his club anywhere with a whiff of sand near the ball, no matter how many Rules officials they put out on the course with the players. Just stick to your normal bunker routine and avoid the uncertainty and agita.

[John Kavanaugh]

They will need Bill Clinton to define what a loose impediment is, is.

[Matthew Essig]

Often times, these "transition" zones between the natural area and bunkers are
-on the outside edge(s) of the bunker
or
-around a bunker that is in the middle of the natural area

If I was playing in the US Open and an interviewer asked me, "How do you feel about these undefined edges around some of the bunkers?" I would answer with, "I am not planning on hitting it there or being that far offline in the first place!"

[Mike Hendren]

So this erudiate group could unanimously agree that a ball coming to rest on the horizontal ridge running through/between the bunker(s) in Ran's photograph is in a bunker?  Stated otherwise, is this a photo of one bunker or two?



What about a ball in the small nick in the face of that ridge with the clump of grass behind it?   Is that a 12" bunker in a bunker?

You guys are good.

Bogey

[RussBaribault]

I caddied in the 2010 PGA Championship at Whistling Straights and what happened to Dustin Johnson was tragic and sad. What happened to him is completely the fault of him and his caddy. Understanding his thoughts on the 72nd hole of a major he obviously was not thinking about the rule, all the players and caddies received clear communication about the sand being a hazard. The issue with having walking rules official’s in every group they can not offer a ruling unless asked and it is a possibility that a player under pressure could make the same mistake and the rules official can only watch if he is not asked for a ruling. Could be dramatic!!

[RussBaribault]

http://www.usopen.com/en_US/video/vod.html#

You could watch this terrible video by the USGA which doesn't even answer the question.

[Ryan Coles]

No one has ever been penalised for not grounding their Club.

I'd love a £1 for every time the helpful commentators try and explain the waste areas this week.

[Matthew Essig]

So this erudiate group could unanimously agree that a ball coming to rest on the horizontal ridge running through/between the bunker(s) in Ran's photograph is in a bunker?  Stated otherwise, is this a photo of one bunker or two?



What about a ball in the small nick in the face of that ridge with the clump of grass behind it?   Is that a 12" bunker in a bunker?

You guys are good.

Bogey

Sorry to play the Mucci card but........ are you a moron?

2 bunkers.

No! Let me know if that 12" bunker is raked on the bottom because it has already been said that all bunkers will be raked in the bottom; however, it might be part of the bigger one. It would be easier to tell if you were standing over it and not looking at it in a photo from a fair distance away..... From the photo, the answer is it is not a bunker.

[Sean_A]

I caddied in the 2010 PGA Championship at Whistling Straights and what happened to Dustin Johnson was tragic and sad. What happened to him is completely the fault of him and his caddy. Understanding his thoughts on the 72nd hole of a major he obviously was not thinking about the rule, all the players and caddies received clear communication about the sand being a hazard. The issue with having walking rules official’s in every group they can not offer a ruling unless asked and it is a possibility that a player under pressure could make the same mistake and the rules official can only watch if he is not asked for a ruling. Could be dramatic!!

But couldn't a rules official state the ball is in a hazard without being asked? 

I recall at Mid Pines that the bunkers were quite distinct from the sandy areas as they were surrounded by grass.  It also helped to know there were very few bunkers.

Ciao

Ciao

[Bill Brightly]

After the Dustin Debacle at the PGA it's hard to imagine a sensible Tour player grounding his club anywhere with a whiff of sand near the ball, no matter how many Rules officials they put out on the course with the players. Just stick to your normal bunker routine and avoid the uncertainty and agita.

+1

These guys are so amazingly good out of fairway bunkers, they obviously can hit the ball without grounding the club. On the other hand, I bet there will be pros who asked for a ruling every time their ball touches sand...