Is TOC the ultimate golf experience?

[Mark Chaplin]

Played TOC twice last week in fabulous conditions with hardly a breeze. The course was in first class order and the greens running around 9.5 the pins were changed which is nice for repeat rounds.

The new bunkers on 2nd fit in really well and make the hole much tighter, the area to the right of the 6th green still needs time to fully settle. To be honest last years kick up appears a storm in a tea cup.

Simple question it was my second trip to St Andrews and I was properly blown away by The Old Course this time, is it the finest experience in golf? If not why?

[Tim_Weiman]

Mark,

Not sure your assumption is correct. TOC does actually leave some first time visitors unimpressed. Might be more accurate to say it is the ultimate acquired taste in golf.

[Nigel Islam]

The Old Course is a magical place. The town, everything. I think I would agree.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Nigel
You agree that The Old Course is great with no wind?
Or great when the greens are running 9.5?
Or that you also agree with the changes?
Cheers   

[Sean_A]

TOC wouldn't be my ultimate golf experience, but its hard to beat.

Ciao

[cary lichtenstein]

Great course, loved it but combine it with 10 more in Scotland and  Ireland and then you have covered that portion of golf's experience.

[Mac Plumart]

is it the finest experience in golf? If not why?


Mark, it very well may be...depending on people's taste.

I've only been once...but the experience has made a lasting impression on me.  It was amazing in every way.  I look forward to returning.

Why may people not be as blown away by it as you and I were?

-Course might be too crowded for them
-Course might be too quirky (hitting over a hotel is one instance)
-You are pushed around the course and play at too hurried a pace
-Shared greens make approach shots scary


Those are just a few off the top of my head.  But, again, I truly loved my time at The Old Course.  I'll never forget it and look forward to returning.

[Bill_McBride]

I would rank a round on The Old Course right up there with the day at Muirfield as a great experience.  

My favorite round on the Old Course was my first, when my brother and I played via the ballot first off at 6:30 am.  Then, guests of a member we hung out in the R&A clubhouse reading room for a while before being very politely and thoroughly over served during a nice lunch upstairs.   A great day indeed.  

[Alex Miller]

Great course, loved it but combine it with 10 more in Scotland and  Ireland and then you have covered that portion of golf's experience.

I combined it with 8 others in Scotland and feel like I hit the tip of an iceburg! I want to spend weeks/months there at some point in my life because 1 time around the Old, while great, just left me wanting more.

I think the question of "is there an ultimate golf experience?" might be appropriate. TOC definitely comes close, but there are many different types of golf courses, clubs, experiences I would have to think the answer is very personal.

[Mac Plumart]

the answer is very personal.

Alex, that is what I was trying to say.  Great response.

[Dave McCollum]

Loved the TOC.  Could remember every hole, every shot.  I said after the round it was a bit of “ignorance is bliss” because we didn’t know the trouble well enough to not play freely.  My other impression was that one would have to play it a dozen times to be so carefree again.  The most entertaining thing happened when I returned to my rural US roots.  I bumped into a golfer that had played there and mentioned I had just returned from Scotland.  He asked if I had played TOC and had I “ever seen such a mess?”  Dumbfounded, it took me a couple of beats to respond:  “Too cheap to hire a caddie, were you?”  His face told it all.

[Mark Chaplin]

I just wish I knew how to post pictures as the scene on 18 last week was pretty unusual.

Pushed along too quickly? With 10 minute tee times the group ahead are on or through the first green by the time you tee off so the spacings are great. The pins were well separated so no hitting danger although our host tugged his second on 13 around 40 yards from the pin. I hit a good6 iron pin high but the bugger left the putt 3" short for a tap in par.

Bill we had a lunchtime tee off on day one so had sandwiches in the trophy room, days two and three were the full monty!

[jeffwarne]

Great course, loved it but combine it with 10 more in Scotland and  Ireland and then you have covered that portion of golf's experience.

I would argue at that point you have only just begun.....

[Ben Voelker]

Loved the TOC.  Could remember every hole, every shot.  I said after the round it was a bit of “ignorance is bliss” because we didn’t know the trouble well enough to not play freely.  My other impression was that one would have to play it a dozen times to be so carefree again.

I couldn't agree with this more.  I played it twice on my only trip last year, both in 50 kmh+ winds.  No question the first time around was bombs away.  Second time around I made a few huge mistakes over-thinking shots.  12 tee in particular comes to mind.

I have not had the breadth of experience many on this board have, but I have a hard time believing there is a single more inspiring experience in golf.  Even if the course underwhelms one the first time around, for anyone who truly loves golf, its hard not to feel a sense of pilgrimage upon first setting foot in St. Andrew's.

[Jon Heise]

Last October, single golfer, first in the queue by the starter's shack by 5am, just me, the entire first and 18th holes and the stars.  Get locked into a four ball for 10:30, made it back to my room up on the Scores for a breakfast and a nap.  Zipped around on a perfect day.  Yeah, that's #1.

[Steve Lang]

   .. was for me on a beautiful sept day in 1996, but Ganton was a whole lot harder...

[Mike Sweeney]

Mark,

Not sure your assumption is correct. TOC does actually leave some first time visitors unimpressed. Might be more accurate to say it is the ultimate acquired taste in golf.

Tim,

I like to poke fun at Mark but your response makes me think that TOC is #1 in terms of "ultimate golf experience". I say that as I know your love for West Coast of Ireland golf.

By the way, I have been to Edinburgh but never to Saint Andrews. Perhaps I should keep the mystery alive rather than visit  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Played TOC twice last week in fabulous conditions with hardly a breeze.
The course was in first class order and the greens running around 9.5 the pins were changed which is nice for repeat rounds.

The new bunkers on 2nd fit in really well and make the hole much tighter, the area to the right of the 6th green still needs time to fully settle.
To be honest last years kick up appears a storm in a tea cup.

At what point do the annual changes create a cummulative, negative impact on the design ?

Put another way, with continual changes, at what point does TOC lose it's identity ?

Or............. when will the course be so altered by annual changes that it's architectural heritage will become mongrelized ? 

Simple question it was my second trip to St Andrews and I was properly blown away by The Old Course this time, is it the finest experience in golf? If not why?

It's certainly an iconic golf course with enormous architectural value.
As to the finest experience in golf, that's a difficult question to answer.
So much depends upon the weather.

I think one of my golf "bucket wishes would be to play 36 in one day.
Current routing and reverse routing.
That would be a treat.

[Bill_McBride]

Played TOC twice last week in fabulous conditions with hardly a breeze.
The course was in first class order and the greens running around 9.5 the pins were changed which is nice for repeat rounds.

The new bunkers on 2nd fit in really well and make the hole much tighter, the area to the right of the 6th green still needs time to fully settle.
To be honest last years kick up appears a storm in a tea cup.

At what point do the annual changes create a cummulative, negative impact on the design ?

Put another way, with continual changes, at what point does TOC lose it's identity ?

Or............. when will the course be so altered by annual changes that it's architectural heritage will become mongrelized ?  

Simple question it was my second trip to St Andrews and I was properly blown away by The Old Course this time, is it the finest experience in golf? If not why?

It's certainly an iconic golf course with enormous architectural value.
As to the finest experience in golf, that's a difficult question to answer.
So much depends upon the weather.

I think one of my golf "bucket wishes would be to play 36 in one day.
Current routing and reverse routing.
That would be a treat.

I was fortunate enough to play both directions in early April 2007, but just one round a day due to the short hours of daylight and heavy play.  It really was a wonderful experience, one I'll never forget.   There are some great reverse holes, such as 13 tee to 11 green into the wind, over Hill Bunker!

EDIT:  It's a real shame that the Links Trust has dropped the Reverse program, it was a unique experience to play both ways. 

[Ed Brzezowski]

My guess is it depends upon your mindset at the outset of your round. Played last year with three folks that never saw TOC before their round. Each said it was close to what  they expected, it was like Goldilocks. One thought it was too penal , one thought it was easy  and the last  thought it was the most spectacular course he ever played.  All played in the same foursome, go figure.

Personally I think it is an experience like no other. The history speaks for itself, the design is timeless and weather can change the conditions in a heartbeat. Add in the town and it really is heaven. Cannot wait to go back. Never had a chance to play ANGC but if it can beat TOC I envy those who have played there.

[Andy Shulman]

Quoting from others earlier in the thread....a magical place...a sense of pilgrimage...perfect day...enormous architectural value...amazing in every way...#1.  From walking down The Scores with your clubs on your back to putting out on #18 in front of whomever happens by, as Sean may have put it best, it's truly hard to beat!

[John Connolly]

Yes.

Why? That's easy ... because ... um ... yes.

[Mac Plumart]

Again, I was blown away by the experience at The Old Course.  But to say across the board it is THE ULTIMATE GOLF EXPERIENCE, is simply too broad a statement.

What about these?

A couple days at Augusta National;
Church 9 at Sand Hills;
Overnight at Pine Valley;
A day at Cypress Point;
Dornoch at dusk;
the full day at Muirfield.

[Steve Okula]

Playing TOC was close to a religious experience. It is a cathedral, hallowed ground, God's own golf course. (I think He's down for the design credit.)

It is the original template from which all other golf courses are drawn.

I'm appalled every time I see a ranking of world golf courses and TOC isn't at the top of the list.

How could it possibly be otherwise?

[Mark Chaplin]

Mac - I've done the bottom four and TOC/St Andrews beats them for me.