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Sam Morrow

Most Designs By State
« on: May 16, 2014, 10:43:16 PM »
A friend of mine just back from North Carolina and made the comment that he played 10 courses and 7 were Ross designs. I know Ross did a great deal of work in North Carolina but I was wondering if anyone knew who had designed the most courses in each state?

I don't know who has done the most here in Texas, I supposed Bredemus or Rivere might have the most in Texas.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 11:05:29 PM »
A friend of mine just back from North Carolina and made the comment that he played 10 courses and 7 were Ross designs. I know Ross did a great deal of work in North Carolina but I was wondering if anyone knew who had designed the most courses in each state?

I don't know who has done the most here in Texas, I supposed Bredemus or Rivere might have the most in Texas.

Who is Rivere?

Sam Morrow

Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 11:08:55 PM »
A friend of mine just back from North Carolina and made the comment that he played 10 courses and 7 were Ross designs. I know Ross did a great deal of work in North Carolina but I was wondering if anyone knew who had designed the most courses in each state?

I don't know who has done the most here in Texas, I supposed Bredemus or Rivere might have the most in Texas.

Who is Rivere?

Jay Rivere, he was design partners with Dave Marr. I believe Rivere played the tour and was an assistant at Winged Foot.

Matthew Rose

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 11:46:20 PM »
I don't know about per state figures, but there do seem to be some architects that are associated with certain regions, like George Cobb and Ellis Maples in the Carolinas, The Phelps' and Jim Engh out here in Colorado, Killian/Nugent in Illinois/Wisconsin, etc..
 
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Mike_Young

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2014, 06:59:33 AM »
Good question.  I think  the answers might surprise this board.  Some sates will be guys this board has never heard from.  Joe Lee will be one....Earl Stone will be one...and others...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tom_Doak

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2014, 07:11:33 AM »
We all know who Joe Lee is, but ... Earl Stone ?

I am not going to lead any states.  The most courses I have in any one state (as of today) is TWO.  I am from the era of modern marketing, when every course developed in a given area had to be done by a designer who hadn't worked there before.

Years ago I saw Steve Smyers landing at the airport in Traverse City to build a course in my back yard [Lochenheath], and I thought, someday I'll be in your back yard.  The nearest town to Streamsong is Lakeland, FL ... where Steve lives.

Mike_Young

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2014, 07:19:04 AM »
TD,
Earl Stone built courses in the SE.  Has several in the Florida panhandle and Alabama. I think he has two in the Kiva Dunes project or next door.

I meant I was betting Joe Lee would lead several states.  I phrased it wrong.  I never thought about what you just said regarding modern marketing.  I have 21 in Georgia but I did spend a lot of time convincing guys they did not need a "name" and in small town America that often worked.  Now it has pissed off some who thought they were "names".   ;D
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

RJ_Daley

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2014, 07:25:14 AM »
Here in Wisconsin, as MY says, it may be someone you are not familiar with, like Art Johnson.  Or, Homer Fieldhouse, even Bob Lohmann.  K&N certainly, along with Ed Lawrence and son, Roger Packard.  The Mathews are in Michigan, and there is a guy in MN whose name escapes me who did a number of local small town courses.  But historically, Bendelow probably leads in all these States of upper midwest/central US.
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Andy Troeger

Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2014, 09:07:17 AM »
My best guess for Indiana would be Bill Diddel. As I researched who designed the various courses I played in the state, his name came up very frequently. Pete Dye also has a lot of courses in Indiana, but I think Diddel would win on quantity.

New Mexico is a melting pot. If someone designed more than a few of the old municipal courses that might be enough to win. Dick Phelps, Ken Dye, and Baxter Spann all have three that I can think of. RTJ Jr and Nicklaus have two each. Ken Dye's courses are the most noteworthy as a set: Paa-Ko, Pinon Hills, and Red Hawk.

Jason Thurman

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2014, 09:11:03 AM »
Buck Blankenship in Kentucky, and no one else is close.

In Ohio, my guess would be Art Hills.
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2014, 09:15:21 AM »
Geoffrey Cornish - most likely in several New England states.
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Lou_Duran

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2014, 09:32:32 AM »
A friend of mine just back from North Carolina and made the comment that he played 10 courses and 7 were Ross designs. I know Ross did a great deal of work in North Carolina but I was wondering if anyone knew who had designed the most courses in each state?

I don't know who has done the most here in Texas, I supposed Bredemus or Rivere might have the most in Texas.

Ralph Plummer by a country mile.  Joe Finger is right up there.  Jeff Brauer and former Brauer associate John Colligan are leaving a large foot print.  Fazio has five in the Top 25.  

Matthew Petersen

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2014, 09:40:58 AM »
I don't know about per state figures, but there do seem to be some architects that are associated with certain regions, like George Cobb and Ellis Maples in the Carolinas, The Phelps' and Jim Engh out here in Colorado, Killian/Nugent in Illinois/Wisconsin, etc..
 

I'd be pretty shocked if it were anyone other than Dick Phelps in Colorado.

In Arizona, my guess would be Greg Nash, as he has done a lot of work in the retirement community courses. Of course, Nicklaus has 6 just at Desert Mountain, plus Desert Highlands, La Paloma, and Dove Mtn. I suspect Nash has even more than that, however.

Nigel Islam

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2014, 09:44:06 AM »
My best guess for Indiana would be Bill Diddel. As I researched who designed the various courses I played in the state, his name came up very frequently. Pete Dye also has a lot of courses in Indiana, but I think Diddel would win on quantity.

New Mexico is a melting pot. If someone designed more than a few of the old municipal courses that might be enough to win. Dick Phelps, Ken Dye, and Baxter Spann all have three that I can think of. RTJ Jr and Nicklaus have two each. Ken Dye's courses are the most noteworthy as a set: Paa-Ko, Pinon Hills, and Red Hawk.

I would agree with Bill Diddel for Indiana. Pete has ripped up a few of Diddel's too for better or worse.

Nigel Islam

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2014, 09:45:30 AM »
Buck Blankenship in Kentucky, and no one else is close.

In Ohio, my guess would be Art Hills.

I would venture to say Art Hills might give Buck a run for his money in Kentucky too.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2014, 10:33:11 AM »
.......there is a guy in MN whose name escapes me who did a number of local small town courses.

Probably thinking of Joel Goldstrand, a former pro, but possibly Don Herfort, too.

BTW, the scorecard count of TX new courses is Plummer is over 45, Leon Howard with over 40, Bredemus is over 20, Finger about 17, Brauer at a dozen, John Colligan is under 5.  I think D.A. Weibring is around 5 as well.  Don January and Billy Martindale had less than 10.

All based on reviewing Architects of Golf or personal knowledge. Sorry for the vagueness, but it was a quick count and there are some collaborations, some NLE (all courses that ever were listed as open did count on my list) etc.  For the current guys, I am not counting total redos, of which we all have some.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 11:42:43 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2014, 10:52:39 AM »
Could be Bill Robinson for Oregon.
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Craig Van Egmond

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2014, 11:28:26 AM »
In Oklahoma its Floyd Farley, with at least 1/3 of all courses.

I'd say Perry Maxwell is a distant second.

Brian Finn

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2014, 11:41:03 AM »
I would bet a few bucks that Jack Kidwell has the most in Ohio.  His name may not be as well-known, but he designed many courses, mostly in central OH.  Hickory Hills and Indian Springs are two very good ones close to Columbus.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2014, 11:43:38 AM »
In Oklahoma its Floyd Farley, with at least 1/3 of all courses.

I'd say Perry Maxwell is a distant second.

According to Cornish/Whitten over 40, nearly 50 for Farley, many of them nine holes, and I would bet they were built for what one hole gets built today.
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Greg Tallman

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2014, 12:47:24 PM »
We all know who Joe Lee is, but ... Earl Stone ?

I am not going to lead any states.  The most courses I have in any one state (as of today) is TWO.  I am from the era of modern marketing, when every course developed in a given area had to be done by a designer who hadn't worked there before.

Years ago I saw Steve Smyers landing at the airport in Traverse City to build a course in my back yard [Lochenheath], and I thought, someday I'll be in your back yard.  The nearest town to Streamsong is Lakeland, FL ... where Steve lives.

Would you say Steve is one of the lesser known, lesser appreciated designers who is actually quite good.

Steve is certainly the better of the architects living in Lakeland, FL.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2014, 01:16:59 PM »
I thought Earl Stone was a land planner, who may have been involved in routings, but turns out Mike is right. From 1958-1990 or so, an Earl Stone designed over a dozen courses in both AL and MS, as well as a handful in FL.(according to Whitten)

Started as an irrigation installer.....patterned work after Dick Wilson.....
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2014, 01:17:30 PM »
Re: Greg Nash in AZ

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Pete_Pittock

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2014, 01:32:18 PM »
Could be Bill Robinson for Oregon.

You smoking that legal stuff?  Bill will probably going to come in 4th or 5th or so. Federspiel, Cupp/Fought, Egan. I'll unearth my Golf In Oregon book and start tabulating.
Finished with the count , more than 75 architects listed for about 200 courses

And the winner is (with 11 designs) H Chandler Egan
8  - Fred Federspiel. Gene "Bunny"Mason, Bill Robinson
 7 - Bob Cupp, Robert Muir Graves
Other in contention were the Junor family, the Zoller family, and the Baldocks.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 02:22:51 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Frank Giordano

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Re: Most Designs By State
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2014, 02:19:27 PM »
In Texas Robert von Hagge and Bruce Devlin, then Robert von Hagge and his associates Rick Baril and Mike Smelek after Devlin left, did a fair number of quite good courses, especially in the southern part of the state, but in the Dallas area as well.  I think Robert von Hagge and Bruce Devlin started there in 1974.

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