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Robert Mercer Deruntz

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Evolution of Restorations
« on: October 25, 2021, 05:06:37 PM »
For a few months I have been thinking about how the restoration movement among classic courses has evolved into becoming a routine topic of conversation among many different types of golfers.  Every day I drive down my driveway looking across at the 4th hole at RSF, and see a desecration that was billed as a restoration.  Looking at the 2021 Golfweek Best, I am familiar with 123 restorations of the 200, and this does not include renovations like Bethpage and Medinah #3, ect   For historical accuracy, were there any conscious restorations before  The Country Club and Piping Rock which took place in the mid-1980's?  I have a feeling that the work at Piping Rock might have a direct and major impact on today's restoration business.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2021, 07:03:54 PM »
Robert:


Pete Dye sent me to Piping Rock in 1986 to run the job there.  It was not a restoration; Pete was enamored with the idea the club had room to take one of Raynor and Macdonald's designs to modern championship length, and his son, P.B., wanted to make it harder in some places, such as cutting part of the 17th green away.  But we also repaired all of the old bunkers into more of the old style, rebuilt the ridge around the 7th green, and did some other things that were restorative.


Two years prior to that, Pete had sent me to The Camargo Club when they called him with regrets about the work they had done in the 1960's, which Pete had tried to talk them out of at the time.  His impetus for sending me there was entirely about restoration, though I did not use that word in any of my reports until years later.  We didn't really make much progress on that until several years later, though, so I wouldn't say that project was especially significant in starting the restoration movement.  Even when I started consulting at Garden City Golf Club c. 1991, "restoration" was not a word that was used much, but a lot of what we were doing fit that description.


Mr. and Mrs. Dye always said that the superintendent at Shoreacres in the early 80's was the first real restoration work they had seen and liked.  Pete was not a big fan of the concept generally, but he was an admirer of Raynor's work and hated some of the things that had been done to such places.


Most clubs in the 1980's had no intention of closing the course and doing a lot of work at once; the restoration process was quite slow and mostly done in-house.  My company did a lot of that work in the 1990's when most other architects pooh-poohed the entire concept of restoration:  The Creek Club, Shoreacres, Yeamans Hall, etc.  Then some of those courses started showing up in the rankings, and lots of other clubs followed suit.

Robert Mercer Deruntz

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2021, 07:58:33 PM »
Tom, your comments are kind of what I am getting at.  I got to see your work at both Creek and Inwood during construction, and played a lot of courses before and after changes starting in 1989.  I really believe that Piping Rock was an inspiration for other courses seeking to recapture lost features, and realizing  interesting possibilities..  I remember the chute you hit out of on the 15th at GCGC, which could have been the tightest around, but actually made hitting the fairway pretty easy for the better player.  Pretty certain I never missed that fairway before 1995.  That tree clearing was pretty radical at the time, but the windy Friday of the 1995 Travis comfortably put to rest all fears of the course playing  easier.

Mark_Fine

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2021, 08:26:27 PM »
Robert,
I think the work Ron Forse did back in the 80’s and 90’s deserves a lot of credit for the restoration movement.  I know he saved my home course Lehigh CC from becoming an Arthur Hills redesign.  He was one of the architects who inspired me and proved that there was merit in studying the evolution of old golf courses and helping clubs determine if what was once there is better then how it evolved. 

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2021, 10:15:49 PM »
I've always been under the impression that what Karl Olson did at NGLA in the early 1980s was the beginning of the restoration movement.  Then I listened to The Fried Egg podcast with Bob Ranum and it appears he started restoring Garden City about the same time or maybe slightly before?  I've always been a little hazy on the dates and if those two worked together or discussed. 


As Tom discusses, I'm not sure what course did a full scale restoration and closed for a season? 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2021, 10:54:02 PM »
I've always been under the impression that what Karl Olson did at NGLA in the early 1980s was the beginning of the restoration movement.  Then I listened to The Fried Egg podcast with Bob Ranum and it appears he started restoring Garden City about the same time or maybe slightly before?  I've always been a little hazy on the dates and if those two worked together or discussed. 



Joel:


I was going to mention Karl Olson’s work but he started at NGLA the day after the US Open at Shinnecock in 1986 - he had been the USGA’s man on the ground at Shinnecock the year prior to the event, and a Green Section field guy before that.


Bob Ranum did some restoring at Garden City - he was the superintendent there and one of the people who hired me, but he left soon after to get started on Atlantic.  Bobby also took care of The Links Golf Club on the side, the last couple of years before it closed.


Both of those guys were instrumental in recommending me to other clubs back when I was just starting.  I still talk to Bob on occasion but have lost track of Karl.

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2021, 07:20:54 AM »
I've always been under the impression that what Karl Olson did at NGLA in the early 1980s was the beginning of the restoration movement.  Then I listened to The Fried Egg podcast with Bob Ranum and it appears he started restoring Garden City about the same time or maybe slightly before?  I've always been a little hazy on the dates and if those two worked together or discussed. 



Joel:


I was going to mention Karl Olson’s work but he started at NGLA the day after the US Open at Shinnecock in 1986 - he had been the USGA’s man on the ground at Shinnecock the year prior to the event, and a Green Section field guy before that.


Bob Ranum did some restoring at Garden City - he was the superintendent there and one of the people who hired me, but he left soon after to get started on Atlantic.  Bobby also took care of The Links Golf Club on the side, the last couple of years before it closed.


Both of those guys were instrumental in recommending me to other clubs back when I was just starting.  I still talk to Bob on occasion but have lost track of Karl.


Didn't Karl end up at Desert Forest maybe 20 years ago? I know he was still at NGLA when I was at MSU, but left shortly after I graduated.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2021, 08:16:45 AM »

Didn't Karl end up at Desert Forest maybe 20 years ago? I know he was still at NGLA when I was at MSU, but left shortly after I graduated.


He was at Tucson CC for several years.

Britt Rife

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2021, 08:45:45 AM »
I wonder if anyone would agree that the tree clearing at Oakmont was a landmark event in movement.  It happened at such a high-profile venue, and was done shortly before it hosted the US Open in 2006.  It seems that it "supercharged" the trend and popularized the tendency.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2021, 08:55:04 AM »
I wonder if anyone would agree that the tree clearing at Oakmont was a landmark event in movement.  It happened at such a high-profile venue, and was done shortly before it hosted the US Open in 2006.  It seems that it "supercharged" the trend and popularized the tendency.


Maybe, but I don't think Oakmont ever would have done it if other clubs hadn't led the way by doing major clearing in the years leading up to that.  It just hadn't been done at a major championship venue.


EDIT:  Now that I think about it, I believe the U.S. Opens at Shinnecock had an impact on all of this, even though nobody laid a hand on the course.  Its success convinced many clubs that the lack of trees and "native" roughs were an acceptable look for a great course, and kick-started the trend in that direction on both new courses and old ones.  [When I took the former superintendent at Crystal Downs, Tom Mead, to Shinnecock in 1987 just before we started building High Pointe, he was upset because it had taken him three years to convince Crystal Downs to go to native roughs, and if he'd known what Shinnecock looked like he could have just pointed at it.]
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 08:58:42 AM by Tom_Doak »

Tim Martin

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2021, 09:25:21 AM »
Robert:


Pete Dye sent me to Piping Rock in 1986 to run the job there.  It was not a restoration; Pete was enamored with the idea the club had room to take one of Raynor and Macdonald's designs to modern championship length, and his son, P.B., wanted to make it harder in some places, such as cutting part of the 17th green away.  But we also repaired all of the old bunkers into more of the old style, rebuilt the ridge around the 7th green, and did some other things that were restorative.



Mel Lucas Jr. was the superintendent at that time. I wonder if he embraced some or all of the changes that were taking place?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2021, 11:37:38 AM »
Robert:


Pete Dye sent me to Piping Rock in 1986 to run the job there.  It was not a restoration; Pete was enamored with the idea the club had room to take one of Raynor and Macdonald's designs to modern championship length, and his son, P.B., wanted to make it harder in some places, such as cutting part of the 17th green away.  But we also repaired all of the old bunkers into more of the old style, rebuilt the ridge around the 7th green, and did some other things that were restorative.



Mel Lucas Jr. was the superintendent at that time. I wonder if he embraced some or all of the changes that were taking place?


He was, but he was not coming back the next year, as he and the club had parted ways.  So he was pretty detached about the whole thing.  I don't know whether the big project had anything to do with him deciding to leave, or the club deciding to let him go, whichever it was.  I was 24 so that was all above my pay grade.


[NOTE:  I realized in writing this that the work we did at Piping Rock was in the fall of 1985, not 1986 as I originally posted.]

Mike Policano

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2021, 11:51:08 AM »
Tom,


In your experience, how often are restorations initiated by existing agronomy problems which require tree removal for the health of the grass and the greens in particular?


Cheers, Mike

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2021, 12:32:59 PM »
I think it is still evolving.  Case no. 1 is Gil Hanse.  He is the hot architect, working at many famous old courses, and his self stated design brief usually contains something like "mixing traditional design elements with modern design elements."  Perhaps his method could be called sympathetic renovation in some cases.


In other words, we want to restore, but not be too confined to the past, since our renovation really looks to the future.  This is where many early (i.e. late 1980's, Rees Jones US Opens) restorations started, but then more faithful replication became the norm.


My guess is Gil's success might start a new, more practical blend philosophy that many here would probably trash on general principle.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2021, 01:15:52 PM »
Tom,


In your experience, how often are restorations initiated by existing agronomy problems which require tree removal for the health of the grass and the greens in particular?


Cheers, Mike


It is a lot easier to convince people to fix something when it is broken vs. just not up to its full potential.


It seems like nematodes have been responsible for a few great restoration projects. Pretty much anything that would require regrassing and especially digging up a rootzone would do the trick.


Trees certainly bring a host of agronomic problems too. But trees surrounding / hurting greens and trees between fairways are two different animals. You normally don't have to shut the course and do surgery to the features directly because of a tree.

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2021, 01:27:01 PM »


It is a lot easier to convince people to fix something when it is broken vs. just not up to its full potential.



That's a really interesting point.  It's not true 100 percent of the the time but valid.  If you're a GM or BOD member, you need to look at this as a business with the intent to get new business (members) and drive future revenue.   




Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2021, 01:55:45 PM »
Tom,

In your experience, how often are restorations initiated by existing agronomy problems which require tree removal for the health of the grass and the greens in particular?



That was very common 20-30 years ago.  Less so now.  Back in the day, a green chairman would often call an architect to ask veiled questions about the conditioning on the course, because the USGA reps would never say a bad thing about the superintendent even if half the grass was dead.  My old boss, Perry Dye, got a reputation in Denver for getting superintendents fired.


Also, some architects were very happy to suggest architectural solutions to agronomic problems.


These days, it’s pretty uncommon to find a good course in bad shape, so I get awkward questions a lot less frequently.

Dan_Callahan

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2021, 02:11:57 PM »
Wasn't 1987 a key moment in the evolution of restorations, when Brian Silva got skewered for his work at Wampanoag?


I found an old article written by Brad Klein that talks about Silva's approach:


"... But here, Silva is careful to distinguish what he does from pure golf course restoration. Despite his admiration for the work of Donald Ross, Silva does not claim to be doing restoration in the literal sense of the term. Instead, he provides what he terms a "sensitive renovation" — sensitive to the feel and concepts of Ross, but not a scrupulous duplication based upon long-lost blueprints and the way things used to be at the club years ago. According to Silva, a golf course can be most successfully renovated when the architect is allowed the creativity to present his version of classical design principles."

Mike_Trenham

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2021, 07:33:04 PM »


It is a lot easier to convince people to fix something when it is broken vs. just not up to its full potential.



That's a really interesting point.  It's not true 100 percent of the the time but valid.  If you're a GM or BOD member, you need to look at this as a business with the intent to get new business (members) and drive future revenue.


Funny Joel, it seems golf course architects often work off the same agenda, more is better.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2021, 07:47:05 PM »
I started a thread a while ago about re-watching the 4th round of the 1986 US Open at Shinnecock, and asking how it had come about (ie a gem of a set-up, elegant in its simplicity). Which might go to show that the average golfer sometimes 'knows', even if he doesn't know what it is he knows.
The 'evolution' of restorations is a great topic. It just feels like there's a lot more to be said than has been said so far.

Tim Martin

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Re: Evolution of Restorations
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2021, 08:30:19 PM »
If you go back to RTJ Sr. and more recently Reese, they were “redesigning” rather than restoring. Both worked in an environment where they were rarely challenged and seemed to have the upper hand with both the subject course/club as well as the governing bodies(USGA and PGA of America) when it came to tournament courses. Neither seemed to care much about original design intent. It’s a different environment today.

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