Kohler Visit

[Ken Fry]

Jaka,

Why so down on Lawsonia?

Have you been back to Erin Hills since we played together?

Ken

[PCCraig]

I think Lawsonia is easily better than the Irish or MV, regardless of price. If a 3rd round is included in some sort of package at Kohler, then MV would be the choice, if it's not, drive the approximately 40 min due west on Highway 23 and play Lawsonia. It's well worth your time as it's the best golf course in Wisconsin.   

[John Kavanaugh]

Jaka,

Why so down on Lawsonia?

Have you been back to Erin Hills since we played together?

Ken

I have not been back to Erin Hills since the day we played. That was a great day.

I dislike Lawsonia for the same reason I don't like Craftsmen style homes.  Everything looks good but everything is out of place.  I grew up playing the exact same course in Vincennes, Indiana which is commonly known as the Elks.  So I just don't care to see the same ole, same ole. There is a reason every L&M course is cheap.

Also I am offended by the mega church mentality of the place.  It's a bias of mine, I don't like to be made uncomfortable during periods of relaxation.  I would have rather played a round in Jones town with guns at my back and loud speakers blaring than be subjected to glad handing pamphlet distributors.  I hated every second I was on property.

[Jud_T]

Anyone who thinks Langford & Moreau are overrated is not only a curmudgeon but painfully out of touch with reality.  Also I wasn't aware that Skokie Country Club was cheap, although I suppose you'll say that's not a "real" L&M.  fyi-  $79 ain't cheap to most folks- it's the higher end of what golf is supposed to cost.  It's like that scene in a movie where there are 2 exactly identical items for sale at a store, one priced $5 and one priced $10.  When the store owner is asked why the difference, the proprietor say "Some people like to pay $5, some like to pay $10."

[Bill Seitz]

Also I am offended by the mega church mentality of the place.  It's a bias of mine, I don't like to be made uncomfortable during periods of relaxation.  I would have rather played a round in Jones town with guns at my back and loud speakers blaring than be subjected to glad handing pamphlet distributors.  I hated every second I was on property.

I know one bad experience can ruin someone on a place forever, and I'm no fan of bible thumpers (or most organized religion), but if I hadn't been told beforehand that Lawsonia had some church affililation, I would never have known it after my lone visit.  The place you are describing is simply not the Lawsonia that exists today. 

As t to the original question, I've not played the Irish, but I know one person who has (who is also on this form) and he thought it was just about the worst golf course he'd ever played.  I've only played the back nine at Meadows Valley, but that's where all of the good holes are, and it's definitely worth a trip around. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Anyone who thinks Langford & Moreau are overrated is not only a curmudgeon but painfully out of touch with reality.  Also I wasn't aware that Skokie Country Club was cheap, although I suppose you'll say that's not a "real" L&M.  fyi-  $79 ain't cheap to most folks- it's the higher end of what golf is supposed to cost.  It's like that scene in a movie where there are 2 exactly identical items for sale at a store, one priced $5 and one priced $10.  When the store owner is asked why the difference, the proprietor say "Some people like to pay $5, some like to pay $10."

Skokie Country Club is news to me.  Thanks.  Did Ran write that review because it doesn't quite flow right.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/skokie-country-club-il-usa/

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Great point about Erin Hills. My dad takes carts even on cart-path only days.

I think one round walking at the Straits is about all I can get out of him. Mike Keiser he is not.

[Jud_T]

Also I am offended by the mega church mentality of the place.  It's a bias of mine, I don't like to be made uncomfortable during periods of relaxation.  I would have rather played a round in Jones town with guns at my back and loud speakers blaring than be subjected to glad handing pamphlet distributors.  I hated every second I was on property.

I'm probably as sensitive as anyone here to this type of thing, if not more so.  It did irk me a bit when the place used to be dry, but now that they offer beer, I see no issue whatsoever.  Sounds like you may need to give it another go.

[SL_Solow]

First, as to the original question;  Meadow Valley over Irish.  Lawsonia is a very different type of course and in my opinion, well worth a look.  Barney; I get it, different tastes for different golfers.  But when my son and I visited there was no religous presence but for the knowledge of the ownership.  I think you know that I would be keenly aware of that issue.  Its avery good example of the L&M engineering style and it is very well preserved.  as for Skokie, I see nothing negative in Ran's review.  The course is an amalgam of styles but it is quite good and worth a play for those who get invited.  One of the best courses on Chicago's north shore.

[Ken Fry]

I have not been back to Erin Hills since the day we played. That was a great day.

I dislike Lawsonia for the same reason I don't like Craftsmen style homes.  Everything looks good but everything is out of place.  I grew up playing the exact same course in Vincennes, Indiana which is commonly known as the Elks.  So I just don't care to see the same ole, same ole. There is a reason every L&M course is cheap.

Also I am offended by the mega church mentality of the place.  It's a bias of mine, I don't like to be made uncomfortable during periods of relaxation.  I would have rather played a round in Jones town with guns at my back and loud speakers blaring than be subjected to glad handing pamphlet distributors.  I hated every second I was on property.

At Erin Hills I remember being disappointed the "Bye" hole would take the place of the "Dell" hole in completing the front nine.  That was a great day and I still owe you a post round beverage.

As others have said, I spent a weekend playing Lawsonia and never once knew of the property's affiliation with any group.  We were treated great and the course was fun.  There was nothing negative about my experience there.  I wish this past weekend I had the time to drive out to Green Lake but Kohler to South Bend was far enough.

I'm also one who doesn't like to be made uncomfortable when playing golf.  While I've never been recruited by a religious group during a round (does Amway count?) any course that I feel I'm part of a golf factory is an immediate turn off.  Unfortunately, particular big golf resorts leave me with that feeling.

Ken

[John Kavanaugh]

First, as to the original question;  Meadow Valley over Irish.  Lawsonia is a very different type of course and in my opinion, well worth a look.  Barney; I get it, different tastes for different golfers.  But when my son and I visited there was no religous presence but for the knowledge of the ownership.  I think you know that I would be keenly aware of that issue.  Its avery good example of the L&M engineering style and it is very well preserved.  as for Skokie, I see nothing negative in Ran's review.  The course is an amalgam of styles but it is quite good and worth a play for those who get invited.  One of the best courses on Chicago's north shore.

I saw nothing negative in the review of Skokie that is posted on this site.  I thought it was written by someone other than Ran.  This is not a slam as I consider Ran the finest golf writer of all time.  But then again, I don't read paper stuff.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have not been back to Erin Hills since the day we played. That was a great day.

I dislike Lawsonia for the same reason I don't like Craftsmen style homes.  Everything looks good but everything is out of place.  I grew up playing the exact same course in Vincennes, Indiana which is commonly known as the Elks.  So I just don't care to see the same ole, same ole. There is a reason every L&M course is cheap.

Also I am offended by the mega church mentality of the place.  It's a bias of mine, I don't like to be made uncomfortable during periods of relaxation.  I would have rather played a round in Jones town with guns at my back and loud speakers blaring than be subjected to glad handing pamphlet distributors.  I hated every second I was on property.

At Erin Hills I remember being disappointed the "Bye" hole would take the place of the "Dell" hole in completing the front nine.  That was a great day and I still owe you a post round beverage.

As others have said, I spent a weekend playing Lawsonia and never once knew of the property's affiliation with any group.  We were treated great and the course was fun.  There was nothing negative about my experience there.  I wish this past weekend I had the time to drive out to Green Lake but Kohler to South Bend was far enough.

I'm also one who doesn't like to be made uncomfortable when playing golf.  While I've never been recruited by a religious group during a round (does Amway count?) any course that I feel I'm part of a golf factory is an immediate turn off.  Unfortunately, particular big golf resorts leave me with that feeling.

Ken

What pissed me off about the bye hole being the 10th hole of the day is that I shot 5 strokes better on my first 18 holes than the 18 that counted.  I made a 2 on my 10th hole of the day and a 7 on my 19th.

[Howard Riefs]

Meadow Valley over Irish. Not a close decision.

[Phil McDade]

Ryan:

I haven't weighed in, as most everyone is aligned with the advice I'd give:

-- Meadow Valleys over Irish;

-- If you have the time, find a way to get to Lawsonia; it's a rigorous walk, but not a taxing one, and carts are available;

-- Erin Hills is worth a visit, but it is one rugged walk -- maybe the most rugged walk I've encountered on a course (verified by some legendary walking-only folks here on GCA). It can get quite warm and muggy here in Wisconsin in summer, there is little shade at EHills, and carts may not be available. A really neat course, but it's not for the faint of heart.

Oh, and this -- ever see the "opposite" episode of Seinfeld, where George does everything the opposite of what he usually does, to great effect? That's how I would view Mr. Kavanaugh's posts on this thread.

[Howard Riefs]

.... there is little shade at EHills, and carts may not be available. A really neat course, but it's not for the faint of heart.

EH still prohibits motor carts and push carts on the course. 

https://www.erinhills.com/erin_hills_golf_rates_packages_2.aspx

[Mark Smolens]

Ryan, I will echo the MV over River recommendations that you've received. On the 7th of June as part of their summer tournament series there's a two best ball of four event on the MV for $150 per player (and no hotel stay required). That includes greens fee, cart, tee prize and free beer on the par-3s! Noon shotgun for you Chicago and WI types.

I'll continue to skip Erin Hills until they remove their discrimination against us push-cart types...

[Ken Fry]

I'll continue to skip Erin Hills until they remove their discrimination against us push-cart types...

I've never heard of this before.  What's the reasoning behind not allowing pull/push carts?

[Matt Glore]

I'll continue to skip Erin Hills until they remove their discrimination against us push-cart types...

I've never heard of this before.  What's the reasoning behind not allowing pull/push carts?

To keep the grass pristine for the open.  When I played back before the US Am the caddie told me the owner will do whatever to have a US Open venue.  Grass conditions were one of his highest priorities.  I love EH, the whole experience.  I had the most relaxing time drinking a beer or two on the back porch after a round.

[Nigel Islam]

John, I really don't see much comparison from the Vincennes Elks to Lawsonia. I believe there are only 9 L&M holes at Vincennes. I do think Lawsonia might be a tad overrated here, but its easily in the same ball park as Erin and the Kohler courses. Now if you want to rag on Langford you could bring up Oakland City CC.........

[Matt Bielawa]

I'll continue to skip Erin Hills until they remove their discrimination against us push-cart types...

I've never heard of this before.  What's the reasoning behind not allowing pull/push carts?

To keep the grass pristine for the open.  When I played back before the US Am the caddie told me the owner will do whatever to have a US Open venue.  Grass conditions were one of his highest priorities.  I love EH, the whole experience.  I had the most relaxing time drinking a beer or two on the back porch after a round.

Their policy on push carts is to keep grass pristine for a one week period that's over three years away?  I find that a little hard to believe. 

[JC Jones]

Meadow Valley over Irish. Not a close decision.

Wow, someone who actually answered the question without turning it into a GCA.com evangelization. 

[Jud_T]

I can't imagine pushing a cart around Erin Hills, or carrying.  Hell, I can barely imagine walking it again with a caddie, especially for $325.  Frankly EH and WS better stock up on fresh jockeys at Target for when Keiser offers a better product at a better price up the road.  Even JC might have to slum it with the public course masses then...

[JC Jones]

I can't imagine pushing a cart around Erin Hills, or carrying.  Hell, I can barely imagine walking it again with a caddie, especially for $325.  Frankly EH and WS better stock up on fresh jockeys at Target for when Keiser offers a better product at a better price up the road.  Even JC might have to slum it with the public course masses then...

Don't hold your breath.

[Josh Tarble]

Jud,
To be fair, walking Erin Hills isn't that much harder than walking (36 at) Kingsley  

[Jud_T]

Josh,

I was actually going to make the comparison.  I'd say it's significantly harder, and Kingsley isn't the easiest walk as you're well aware.  There are some significant green to tee walks at EH that you don't have at Kingsley.  Not to mention that the course stretches to 8200 yards (?).  It's gotta be an extra mile walk, with at least as much elevation change, if not more.  Add in that it's typically several degrees warmer and more humid in the summer and you've got a fairly lethal combo.  I went up with my son for the Am and we bailed before humping the whole 18.

P.S.  missed the 36!