[mike_beene]

Having once again bounced a ball down a Dallas street on one of my favorite tight property courses, I started thinking again on the severity of OB. How is it that what matters in the ball leaving the property is what lives next door. If it is an ocean or lake, the penalty is one stroke under the hazard or lateral hazard rule. It matters not that Pebble Beach doesn't own the Pacific. How are ocean boundaries different than street boundaries? Are not we really waiving stroke and distance in exchange for scenery? Are there courses that don't have boundaries and playing off the street or a yard are allowed?Any ocean or big lake courses mark the edge as OB? Why can't OB be treated like a lateral under the rules?

[Bill_McBride]

Because that's not the rule?

[jeffwarne]

Having once again bounced a ball down a Dallas street on one of my favorite tight property courses, I started thinking again on the severity of OB. How is it that what matters in the ball leaving the property is what lives next door. If it is an ocean or lake, the penalty is one stroke under the hazard or lateral hazard rule. It matters not that Pebble Beach doesn't own the Pacific. How are ocean boundaries different than street boundaries? Are not we really waiving stroke and distance in exchange for scenery? Are there courses that don't have boundaries and playing off the street or a yard are allowed?Any ocean or big lake courses mark the edge as OB? Why can't OB be treated like a lateral under the rules?

Many/most UK/Ireland courses mark ocean as OB.
Tralee has some noticeably unattractive OB stakes on one of the front 9 par 3's

playing off the road at 17 at TOC is allowed

[mike_beene]

Bill ,I want a rule change.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill ,I want a rule change.

Couldn't agree more. 

[Bill_McBride]

Having once again bounced a ball down a Dallas street on one of my favorite tight property courses, I started thinking again on the severity of OB. How is it that what matters in the ball leaving the property is what lives next door. If it is an ocean or lake, the penalty is one stroke under the hazard or lateral hazard rule. It matters not that Pebble Beach doesn't own the Pacific. How are ocean boundaries different than street boundaries? Are not we really waiving stroke and distance in exchange for scenery? Are there courses that don't have boundaries and playing off the street or a yard are allowed?Any ocean or big lake courses mark the edge as OB? Why can't OB be treated like a lateral under the rules?

Many/most UK/Ireland courses mark ocean as OB.
Tralee has some noticeably unattractive OB stakes on one of the front 9 par 3's

playing off the road at 17 at TOC is allowed

Funny thing, the beach at Crail is OOB, at North Berwick it's not, you can play off the sand. 

[Stephen Pellegrino]

Oyster Harbors has no OB.  If you wish you can play off of streets, across streets, from neighbors' yards - you name it.  Growing up there I remember that one member had a sign in his yard encouraging members to play through.

[David_Tepper]

The ocean/firth left on holes #9 & #11 at Royal Dornoch are red-staked as lateral hazards. The 3rd, 4th & 5th holes playing along the beach at Golspie are also red-staked. My understanding is that lateral hazards, as the rules are now written, must be water hazards.  

I agree that the stroke & distance penalty for OB seems severe. You could probably say the same for a lost ball, especially when everyone in the playing group can see where the ball went, but cannot be found.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Oyster Harbors has no OB.  If you wish you can play off of streets, across streets, from neighbors' yards - you name it. 

Growing up there I remember that one member had a sign in his yard encouraging members to play through.

I'd like to see the back of the scorecard

[Lou_Duran]

Mr. Beene,

Remember your age when you swing and perhaps you can keep your ball on the property.  If memory serves, there are no boundaries on the ocean holes at Cypress Point (but the place is so cool, I wouldn't doubt if the club has an undivided interest in the Pacific).  You go left or long and it is either play it off the beach if you can find it or it's a lost ball and you go back to the tee.  Golf is not meant to be easy.  Rather than dumbing down the test, try studying a little- go practice.

[Jason Thurman]

If you miss well right on the 10th hole at Pebble Beach, you contribute to oceanic habitat for numerous species that live along the coastal sea floor. If you miss right on the 14th hole, you may damage a fellow American's 25,000,000 dollar investment. Part of golf's status as a favorable component of many communities is the extra dissuasion its rules give to those willing to challenge OB as opposed to a lateral hazard.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Having once again bounced a ball down a Dallas street on one of my favorite tight property courses, I started thinking again on the severity of OB. How is it that what matters in the ball leaving the property is what lives next door. If it is an ocean or lake, the penalty is one stroke under the hazard or lateral hazard rule. It matters not that Pebble Beach doesn't own the Pacific. How are ocean boundaries different than street boundaries? Are not we really waiving stroke and distance in exchange for scenery? Are there courses that don't have boundaries and playing off the street or a yard are allowed?Any ocean or big lake courses mark the edge as OB? Why can't OB be treated like a lateral under the rules?

There is no lateral hazard in the rules, there is a lateral water hazard and that is "any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not containing water) and anything of a similar nature on the course. All ground and water within the margin of a water hazard are part of the water hazard."

[mike_beene]

Jim, the definition says "on the course".I maintain that the beach, the ocean a lake or the Old Course hotel are not "on the course".

Lou, practice can't cure my lack of ability and weak mental state! On the plus side no cars were harmed in the making of this thread.

[Keith Grande]

Reminds me of the time where this homeowner kept moving the OB stakes towards the fairway.  His property was on the right side of the hole, in the drive slice zone.  He thought that would keep balls away from his yard.  We chuckled and explained that that stake has no impact on how the common hacker hits the ball.  They're not trying to hit it over there.....

[Steve Salmen]

Martin Del Vecchio:
Oyster Harbors, a Donald Ross on Cape Cod, declares on its scorecard that there is no out of bounds on the course. 

[Jon Cavalier]

Pretty sure Dormie and Chechesee Creek have no OB. Of course, they have no houses or roads either. But you can play from the parking lot or the deck if you happen to end up there.

[Tom_Doak]

If there is no boundary then how can you be "off the property" ?

I believe I have played several courses over the years where the Local Rule was that there was no out of bounds.  But, it's been a long time, I don't remember which they were.

My favorite Local Rule that I can remember was from West Cornwall, where if your ball comes to rest within two club lengths of a boat, it could be moved without penalty.

[BHoover]

If there is no boundary then how can you be "off the property" ?

It's sort of like the Seinfeld episode where Kramer finds himself at the corner of First and 1st--"I'm at the nexus of the universe!"

I believe that the roof of the clubhouse at Firestone used to be considered in play...at least it was for Tiger.

I think the 3rd tee at NCR South is literally next to another tee at Moraine (I think). I don remember seeing any OB stakes. So, it may be possible to play a shot from the property off the property and then back onto the property, all without incurring any penalty.

[Mike_Clayton]

Wasn't the 17th tee at the Road Hole OOB in the 2010 Open?
As John Huggan is fond of point out, the Open was played on 4 courses that year. 2nd tee on Himalayas. 9 tee on the New. 14 on Eden (I think) and 17 OOB.

[mike_beene]

The 14th tee at TOC for the open really bothered me.If you whiffed were you then declared O
B?What if through some freak you hit a drive that caught the wall and bounced back to a point within the teeing ground(markers and two club lengths back).Would that ball be OB?

[Sam Morrow]

Having once again bounced a ball down a Dallas street on one of my favorite tight property courses, I started thinking again on the severity of OB. How is it that what matters in the ball leaving the property is what lives next door. If it is an ocean or lake, the penalty is one stroke under the hazard or lateral hazard rule. It matters not that Pebble Beach doesn't own the Pacific. How are ocean boundaries different than street boundaries? Are not we really waiving stroke and distance in exchange for scenery? Are there courses that don't have boundaries and playing off the street or a yard are allowed?Any ocean or big lake courses mark the edge as OB? Why can't OB be treated like a lateral under the rules?

It wasn't your home club? Then I'm guessing either DCC, Stevens, or Tenison.

[mike_beene]

We are still being redone. 16 at Dallas. Third ball I have hit down Beverly in two weeks.When there are people on 15 it is hard for me to start it left enough.I was three over last week when it happened. I need to hit driver into the hill or it leaves me too far back. Maybe I will rethink this in the morning. Yes,it is in my head now.

[Sam Morrow]

Before the redo was 16 the par 3 across the creek?

[mike_beene]

Sam,yes but there have been 3 or 4 redoes with the holes changing order,especially on the back.Now you play par 3s as 12 and 13 but 12 goes east and green across water from clubhouse. Then 13 is par 3 to Mockingbird.Then 14 heads back and used to be 17, then15 plays west across water.Then 16 and 17 play the perimeter and you walk past 14 tee and 18 plays parallel to 14.
This post should win snoozer of the year,similar to reading Old Testament genealogies .

[Sam Morrow]

Sam,yes but there have been 3 or 4 redoes with the holes changing order,especially on the back.Now you play par 3s as 12 and 13 but 12 goes east and green across water from clubhouse. Then 13 is par 3 to Mockingbird.Then 14 heads back and used to be 17, then15 plays west across water.Then 16 and 17 play the perimeter and you walk past 14 tee and 18 plays parallel to 14.
This post should win snoozer of the year,similar to reading Old Testament genealogies .

No, good post, you're not bickering with anyone for no reason!

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