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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2014, 08:50:08 AM »
I remember a well known GCAer telling me it could cost him $50 to get from the car park to the first tee.


Which no doubt brought his cost basis up to ..................$50
 ::) ;D ;)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2014, 10:28:46 AM »
I worked a bag drop for a summer in college. It was an extremely easy/mindless job....car pulls up, grab the bag out of the trunk, ask what time he/she is playing, put it on the bag drop or cart, wipe down clubs when they come in. It was a fair amount of work and you were always moving (cleaning carts, working the drop, working the range), but the pay was pretty lousy all things considered. You'd make about $80 in tip cash over an 8-9 hour shift, plus a (laughable) ~$20-30 (post-tax) salary. I eventually figured out it was a lot easier to make money caddying...more work but more money in less than half the time.
H.P.S.

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2014, 10:39:04 AM »
The only people who can be tipped at Kinloch Golf Club are caddies.  The out front guys, especially Cookie and Justin are the best in the business.  I have had numerous guests comment on them over the years.  They are subtle, yet effective in greeting and getting members and guests on their way to play.  Not flashy, just damn good.  People appreciate that for the most part.

Lester

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2014, 10:41:35 AM »
I just don't understand the strong comments against the guys who work the bag drop.  Most clubs have it and most private clubs have a no tipping policy, except for caddies and the shoe guy.  I can function without a bag drop just fine but if there is one, so be it.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Neil Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2014, 11:11:48 AM »
I just don't understand the strong comments against the guys who work the bag drop.  Most clubs have it and most private clubs have a no tipping policy, except for caddies and the shoe guy.  I can function without a bag drop just fine but if there is one, so be it.

I agree.  Our bag drop guys are usually pretty good.  They hang out around the bag room, get your clubs out for you when you arrive and give them to you to walk or put them on a cart.  When I get in they clean 'em up and put them away, I always give them a couple of bucks.   

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2014, 11:51:33 AM »
IMHO... If your club has a bag room, then a bag drop makes sense.  Since he manages which bags come out of the room it makes sense for
him to manage the bags that come out of the trunk

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2014, 12:04:46 PM »
IMHO... If your club has a bag room, then a bag drop makes sense.  Since he manages which bags come out of the room it makes sense for
him to manage the bags that come out of the trunk

We don't have bag drop guys, per se; we have employees whose primary responsibilities are the same as mine were when I had a similar job in high school:  maintaining the bag room (including grabbing and replacing clubs, cleaning clubs, etc.); maintaining the carts (including cleaning them, getting them in/out of the garage, putting bags on them); maintaining the range (both picking it and setting it up); and otherwise helping the pro shop out, especially with the logistics for big tournaments.  A pretty small part of their work is grabbing clubs from guys who pull up to drop their clubs at the bag drop; they rarely grab clubs from the parking lot.     

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2014, 01:05:45 PM »
As you may know , I'm not wowed by pomp and circumstance. Our bag guys are really excellent. !  They get your clubs re gripped , cover for you when you are running late , always have a range token if you need it , etc etc again .

What kind of club has all these services yet requires a token for range balls?

I'm with Mr. Hutto on this one.  Golf to me should involve some physical effort and going from the parking lot to the practice range or first tee does not require an attendant.  It is a difficult situation for some clubs because some members, as this thread indicates, value these types of services while others are bothered with having to turn them away and being labeled as a cheapskate.  A better approach I've seen work is the club identifying who among its members are management intensive and providing the desired services accordingly.  It does require an attention to detail which is relatively rare and perhaps too costly (in terms of employment levels, training, staff retention).

Brent Hutto

Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2014, 01:09:53 PM »
Lest I unfairly complain about my own club, I'll hasten to add that after my first few months of saying "no thanks" to the offer of a ride from my car to the clubhouse (about 60 paces, usually) the staff no longer bother to drive a cart over and make the offer. When a new part-timer joins the staff they will ask a couple times before getting the message.

I'm not the only member of my club who opt out but there only seem to be a few of us.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2014, 04:21:15 PM »
 ;D :'( ;D


Lol Lou , that's quite smart

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2014, 05:29:49 PM »
Adam I've been working on splitting the ends of a new loo roll and making the shape of two mating swans.........back to the drawing board!
Cave Nil Vino

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2014, 11:04:45 PM »
Adam I've been working on splitting the ends of a new loo roll and making the shape of two mating swans.........back to the drawing board!

These are nice, Chappers. You should learn how to fold the TP for your 5-star guests... all whilst whistling a happy tune.

"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2014, 01:06:45 PM »
Michael Whitaker,

Another difference between the two of us.  I am pleasantly surprised when the hotels I stay have some TP left on the roll and I don't have to walk down to the office and ask nicely for a new one.

Kevin Robinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2014, 10:26:46 AM »
I'm going to try to be very careful here...but I have a pretty intimate knowledge of this subject. It's an incredibly important, utterly thankless component of the golf business...and I could tell some stories that would really piss some people off.
As golf professionals, most of us get our foot in the door by working the bag drop...and I'm no different. I was fortunate to work at several Top-50 clubs over my 15 years as a club professional....and I witnessed or was a part of every possible incarnation of the bag drop/valet concept.
The bag drop guys at most clubs literally do EVERYTHING. Cleaning, prepping, and staging golf carts for daily play (and cleaning and storage), setting up, taking down, and picking the range (almost constantly at some clubs), cleaning and storing bag-room clubs, meeting and greeting members/guests. In fact, the bag room guys at many large/busy clubs I'm familiar with know the day's tee sheet much better than the Head Professional or Director of Golf, who are usually otherwise engaged inside the clubhouse or outside teaching.  

I spent my entire career as a club professional at high-end, private facilities. With the exception of Yeamans Hall, the golf operations side of literally every club I worked at would be utter chaos without a good outside staff. Trust me when I tell you that without this staff, many clubs (golf operations-wise) would be a mess.
There are a couple different ways that clubs choose to compensate these guys. Many still hold on to the gratuity model, which means that the club is relying on members and guests to ensure that it's employees make a livable wage. I worked at a fairly well-known club in the Hilton Head area that paid its outside guys $8 an hour, plus tips. This isn't a bad arrangement for 3 months out of the year, when you can reasonably expect to make an extra $75-$100 per shift. However, the rest of the year, it's pretty tough sledding when you are only bringing home what the club pays you. This club insisted on the highest level of cleanliness, service, and accommodation of its members and guests. Most members own their own carts, and after they have finished their round, the outside staff is expected to "detail" their golf carts with Tire-Shine and Armor-All, much as if they were an automobile...many taking anywhere from 15-20 minutes to complete. Most members would toss you $5 for that and cleaning their clubs -although there were a few who would try to stiff you. Ironically, the shifts where the guys made decent money were actually ones where a large number of guests played. NO ONE ever volunteered to work on Ladies Day, or during the Ladies Member-Guest. Where most men typically tip $3-$20 per bag, you can count on the ladies at this particular club to come through with anything from nickels and dimes to single dollar bills.
This is a club where the members pay a huge premium to own a home, pay well into seven digits as an initiation, and pay dues that are probably over 20K per year by now. So no one is going to sympathize with them for spending probably $100 per year tipping the staff.
My point is this, if you join a club like this, or play there as a guest, just understand that the club has set it's operation up in such a way that these guys are dependent on tips to make their money.

It's kind of like going to Fleming's, Ruth's Chris, or St. Elmo's for dinner. You know it's expensive going in, you could probably go back in their kitchen and cook the damn steak yourself and do as good a job...but are you really going to have an inner dialogue about whether or not to stiff the server? If you have a lousy experience, or poor service, feel free to tip less than 20%. I wouldn't blame you for avoiding the place afterwards. If no one greets you, cleans your clubs, and you walk, I don't think anyone would expect a tip.

I don't like the gratuity model at clubs any better than anyone else here - and I'm embarrassed when I go to a fancy club and someone makes a fuss over me. I typically avoid the bag drop altogether and walk my own clubs over. I always tip the bag drop guys, though, because I know they have to clean up whatever mess I left in the cart after my round, and I know that they are being paid as little as possible.

This is the sanitized version that I doubt anyone will read anyway. You don't have to agree with me, but there is a lot more to it than most folks realize...
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 10:38:25 AM by Kevin Robinson »

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bag drop , unsung heroes of golf. OT
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2014, 11:16:29 AM »
The problem with tipping is not the amount of money it costs me, but the hassle. I have to think of a fair amount, bring that in line with the level of service actually delivered and hope I don't have to feel guilty or see a frown. It's much more convenient to pay a fixed price (in this case member dues, greenfee) and be done with it. So I would avoid joining clubs with a "tipping culture", if at all possible. It makes me feel bad far more often than good.

I also don't want anyone to touch my golf bag. There's any amount of personal/private stuff in there plus I'd like to handle my clubs myself, thank you. So if there is any damage I don't have to worry about who caused it. Occasionally I'll forget to pack something or buy something from the Pro shop - where should I put it, if someone already took off with my bag? I'd really like to keep my bag close by.

This is my sanitized version from the other side of the fence :)

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)