Multiple Tee Angles

[Norbert P]

 I was sketching a green the other night when I realized the green could be approached from several different angles and still play interestingly.  The green contours became tricky though as the roll possibilities boggled my mind.  

 There is a golf hole in my area (11th at Great Blue, Heron Lakes) that is fun to play (from the 12th tee grounds).  It makes it a (lame) Redan with soft green.

  I can think of only one hole that has different angles to the green actually designed in...  #10 at Pacific Dunes.  

    I can see it making holes more interesting for multiple plays.  I know it would cost more but it couldn't be too prohibitive.  Walking distance to alternate tees may be annoying but sometimes we have to walk around a lake or hazard anyway.

  Does the USGA and their slope/rating criteria not encourage this?   Does the everpresent saturated green deny any real golf strategy by angle anyway?  (Target golf = target golf - no matter where you tee it from.)

  Why aren't there more designs with this feature of multiple angle tees?
  

[THuckaby2]

 Does the USGA and their slope/rating criteria not encourage this?

We need JV for the authoritative answer here, but from my experience just note that:

1. The general rule is that only tees more than 25 yards apart get a separate "rating", regardless of their designation;

2.  This is straight-line distance, however - tees from different angles could be rated differently if they provide significant difference in obstacles faced;

3. The course would have to request such separate ratings, and it would give separate numbers.  My guess at Pacific Dunes is that re #10, the obstacles faced aren't different enough to give a different utlimate numerical outcome... same would go for the two different greens on 9....

I believe the local associations will rate whatever courses want them to rate... so the basic answer here is the system works... the course just might end up with many different numerical ratings if they have many different tees, same as now for courses with 5 tee blocks - you might just have an A,B,C rating from one set of blocks....

TH

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Yes, I agree this should be done more.  Tillinghast writes about long tees on par 3's, horizontal to the hole, which will give different strategy depending upon the location of the tee.  On heavily played courses this is a great idea to spread the wear and tear of the tee.  At clubs, where players use the same course frequently, it would serve as nice variety.  Tillinghast cautions about the difficulty of designing the green correctly.  It is from his writings about his travels around the country on behalf of the PGA.

[CHrisB]

The 6th at Tobacco Road is a par 3 with tees spread out on an arc so that the green can be approached from completely different angles.  From the far left tee the green is 10-12 yards deep and 25+ yards wide, and from the far right tee the approach is 90 degrees from the far left tee, so that the green is 25+ yards deep and 10-12 yards wide!  You can see a few of the teeboxes in the background of this picture taken from behind the green.

[DMoriarty]

If you think about it, this is the concept behind short par fours with interesting greens and plenty of width.  Only it takes it one step further: Let the golfer pick the spot from which he wants to approach the green, then let him try to hit his tee shot there.   Cheaper than building a bunch of tees.  

I think it is a good idea, but I wonder if the card and pencil golfers would agree.  

[Bruce Katona]

The ultimate would be to design a course which would play from multiple tees qwith multiple pars. The super/gm/pro could set the course up to be a tough long par 70, a par 71 or a par 72, depending on tee location used. This would add interest to a private club where members know the course so well and know exactly which club they are going to use on each hole, due to "local knowledge". Building multiple sets of tees during initial construction is not much of an additional expense. They key to to allow the hole corridor, grass ann land contouring and the green complex to be receptive to play from multiple angles.

I've tossed this idea out for one of our courses, but have not yet benn successful in getting it implemented yet

[Bruce Katona]

The ultimate would be to design a course which would play from multiple tees qwith multiple pars. The super/gm/pro could set the course up to be a tough long par 70, a par 71 or a par 72, depending on tee location used. This would add interest to a private club where members know the course so well and know exactly which club they are going to use on each hole, due to "local knowledge". Building multiple sets of tees during initial construction is not much of an additional expense. They key to to allow the hole corridor, grass ann land contouring and the green complex to be receptive to play from multiple angles.

I've tossed this idea out for one of our courses, but have not yet benn successful in getting it implemented yet

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I love tees from differnet angles. I feel you can use angles to put strategy into a tee shot or create playability by lessoning it. That is the one component of many link course I do not like. the tee 10 to 15 yards longers but from the same angle. I feel the angle more than the distance makes the hole more interesting and challenging.

[RJ_Daley]

http://www.kingsleyclub.com/DIRtour/holes/hole9/hole9.html

http://www.purgatorygolf.com/Popuptour/12tour.html

Norby, here are two examples of multiple tee, varied angles.  As noted above, Tobacco Road has a good one.  I'm thinking that there are more examples than we might think - of greens that have multiple tees or approaches that are from 65-90* variance.

[JohnV]

There is a par 3 at Tallamore near Pinehurst that has tees that are 90 degrees apart.  I believe they are used on alternate days.

#2 at Bandon has another set of tees up above the first green.  These were the original tees, but they built the lower tees before it opened.  The tees are still there and maintained.  I played from there once on my last visit.  It is definitely a different look as you are at the same height as the green and part of it is obscured by some parts of the dune line.

At the Kauai Lagoons Kiele course there is a par 3 where the women's tee is on the opposite side of the green from the men's.  I guess the women couldn't carry the hazard so they built a tee for them.