[Jim_Kennedy]

Reports that say there's -- that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things that we know that we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know. —Donald Rumsfeld, United States Secretary of Defense

I've never been able to reach the transcendental state of mind required to decipher the above quote , but I do have a question about unknowns.
There are quite a few known old courses where the architect is unknown, but I think an unknown is the date of the newest known course whose architect is unknown? Any one know?   


 

[Bill_McBride]

Reports that say there's -- that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things that we know that we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know. —Donald Rumsfeld, United States Secretary of Defense

I've never been able to reach the transcendental state of mind required to decipher the above quote , but I do have a question about unknowns.
There are quite a few known old courses where the architect is unknown, but I think an unknown is the date of the newest known course whose architect is unknown? Any one know?   


 

Hopefully you haven't started any wars lately!   

[RJ_Daley]

I could come close to comprending this if you were saying or asking about the newest known course  (known by at least someone known to our group) who knows something that there is to know about GCA, whereby the architect is not known (by most of us who should know) but in deed is not known. 

Perhaps it is a pity that Rummy didn't go into GCA because he has a knack for camoflauging the hazards that are known from the unknowing.  Sounds like a good GCA skill to me.   

[Pete_Pittock]

and for filing federal income taxes

[Patrick_Mucci]

Reports that say there's -- that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know,
1     there are known knowns; there are things that we know that we know.
2     We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
3     But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

 —Donald Rumsfeld, United States Secretary of Defense

I've never been able to reach the transcendental state of mind required to decipher the above quote , but I do have a question about unknowns.
There are quite a few known old courses where the architect is unknown, but I think an unknown is the date of the newest known course whose architect is unknown? Any one know?   

Jim,

By example

1  We know where every ICBM launch site in Russia is.
2  We don't know how many MIRV's are in each warhead
3  We never knew, let alone theorized that they had a program and the capability to arm the MIRV's with CBW.

Hope that helps



 

[Ronald Montesano]

mmmm, camouflage...mmm, Boehr...mmm....MacKenzie

[Patrick_Mucci]

Reports that say there's -- that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things that we know that we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know. —Donald Rumsfeld, United States Secretary of Defense

I've never been able to reach the transcendental state of mind required to decipher the above quote , but I do have a question about unknowns.
There are quite a few known old courses where the architect is unknown, but I think an unknown is the date of the newest known course whose architect is unknown? Any one know?   

Jim,

Let me use a more apt example.

1     We know that there are morons on this site
2     We know that there are morons on this site, but, we don't know how many.
3     We never knew, let alone theorized that these morons, known and unknown are part of a conspiracy to promote tennis and bowling

Hope that helps  


 

[Sam Morrow]

Sure it would be awesome if this site was about golf and not our personal feelings on politicians.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Why on earth anyone would think that it's 'funny' to start a thread based on the musings on an unrepentant sociopath is simply beyond me..
The person in question was involved in the deaths of over 5,000 American servicemen and women, plus 100,000 other people.

At least Robert McNamara was, at the end of his life, reflective on the choices he'd made to escalate the Vietnam War.

Anthony,

Your intelligence, class and prolonged dedication to public service pale in comparison to Donald Rumsfeld's.

[Tim_Weiman]

Sure it would be awesome if this site was about golf and not our personal feelings on politicians.

Sam,

Donald Rumsfeld was actually a classmate of mine and he made a pretty favorable impression. Always very nice, the kind of person you would enjoy having in a college political science course. Of course, I had no idea he would go on to serve a second time as Secretary of Defense and become a much better known and more controversial character. But, the person I sat in class with (late 1970s) was actually quite pleasant.

I have no idea, however, about his views on golf architecture!

[Sam Morrow]

Sure it would be awesome if this site was about golf and not our personal feelings on politicians.

Sam,

Donald Rumsfeld was actually a classmate of mine and he made a pretty favorable impression. Always very nice, the kind of person you would enjoy having in a college political science course. Of course, I had no idea he would go on to serve a second time as Secretary of Defense and become a much better known and more controversial character. But, the person I sat in class with (late 1970s) was actually quite pleasant.

I have no idea, however, about his views on golf architecture!

Thanks Tim, interesting stuff! Small world.

[Martin Toal]

Why on earth anyone would think that it's 'funny' to start a thread based on the musings on an unrepentant sociopath is simply beyond me.. The person in question was involved in the deaths of over 5,000 American servicemen and women, plus 100,000 other people.

At least Robert McNamara was, at the end of his life, reflective on the choices he'd made to escalate the Vietnam War.

Sociopaths are, by definition, unrepentant.

The whole known/unknown 2x2 table is based on some work by Talleb, author of The Black Swan, who briefed the US Dept of Defense on the concepts some time before Rumsfeld's speech.

From a logical point of view, it makes perfect sense. Of course, the outcome of the logical process still depends on pre-existing prejudices and ideologies, so those might be where Rumsfeld went wrong.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Why on earth anyone would think that it's 'funny' to start a thread based on the musings on an unrepentant sociopath is simply beyond me.. The person in question was involved in the deaths of over 5,000 American servicemen and women, plus 100,000 other people.

At least Robert McNamara was, at the end of his life, reflective on the choices he'd made to escalate the Vietnam War.

Didn't take much to get 'beyond' you, did it.     You must be a real gas at parties.

Pat,
That explains it well.

RJ,
It's probably impossible to be an unknown that should be known in today's world of GCA. 

 

[Jud_T]

It's unknown why no one known here has addressed the known question of what's the most recent known course with an unknown GCA. Or is it?

[JESII]

Did Doak learn who the architect of that course in the Himalayas was?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Sure it would be awesome if this site was about golf and not our personal feelings on politicians.

Sam,

Donald Rumsfeld was actually a classmate of mine and he made a pretty favorable impression. Always very nice, the kind of person you would enjoy having in a college political science course. Of course, I had no idea he would go on to serve a second time as Secretary of Defense and become a much better known and more controversial character. But, the person I sat in class with (late 1970s) was actually quite pleasant.

I have no idea, however, about his views on golf architecture!

Tim, Rummy was in school in the late 1970s? Do you mean late '50s?

Bethpage Black?

[Jim_Kennedy]

The latest known unknown I can find in Ct. is Airways GC, built in 1963, and the Carl Dickman par 3 course, 1968.

The architects of these two would probably remain unknown even if they were known, or to paraphrase - known unknowns, the ones we know we don't want to know.   

[Tim_Weiman]

Sure it would be awesome if this site was about golf and not our personal feelings on politicians.

Sam,

Donald Rumsfeld was actually a classmate of mine and he made a pretty favorable impression. Always very nice, the kind of person you would enjoy having in a college political science course. Of course, I had no idea he would go on to serve a second time as Secretary of Defense and become a much better known and more controversial character. But, the person I sat in class with (late 1970s) was actually quite pleasant.

I have no idea, however, about his views on golf architecture!

Tim, Rummy was in school in the late 1970s? Do you mean late '50s?

Bethpage Black?

Mark,

After his first service as Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld spent some time at Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School when the Carter Administration came into office. It is common at the WWS for visiting scholars (including unemployed or out of power government officials) to sit in on classes for both undergraduate and graduate level students. The class Rumsfeld sat in on was taught by Fouad Ajami who later became fairly influential with both Bush Administrations and whose views supporting both Gulf Wars were controversial to some.

I see the post above suggesting Rumsfeld was an arrogant SOB during his undergraduate years at Princeton, but that was not my experience with him in Professor Ajami's course. He was very polite and personable and pretty low key, much more interested in listening than expressing his own views - the opposite of the popular stereotype.

[Jud_T]

Carter's grandson supports the continued production of Confederate license plates too, but what the F&*$ does that have to do with the question at hand?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat Mucci-

if I did nothing for the rest of my life other than killing delivery people and burying them in the backyard, I would barely scratch the surface of the harm Donald Rumsfeld has done to this country and planet.

Anthony,

You need professional help............ ASAP

[Tom_Doak]

Did Doak learn who the architect of that course in the Himalayas was?

Jim:

It was designed by a retired British army officer, Maj. Ram Gurung.  He actually came out and walked with us when we played, but did not introduce himself as the designer of the course; it took me a few holes to figure out he was the designer.  I've never met a more modest person in this business, but of course, he isn't really in "the business".

I doubt Donald Rumsfeld plays golf, but you do meet some interesting people in the golf business.  I once had dinner with Gen. William Westmoreland, who inspired many of the same feelings for a different generation.  He was on the green committee at one of the clubs where we consulted.  We didn't discuss his former line of work.

[Bill_McBride]

Did Doak learn who the architect of that course in the Himalayas was?

Jim:

It was designed by a retired British army officer, Maj. Ram Gurung.  He actually came out and walked with us when we played, but did not introduce himself as the designer of the course; it took me a few holes to figure out he was the designer.  I've never met a more modest person in this business, but of course, he isn't really in "the business".

I doubt Donald Rumsfeld plays golf, but you do meet some interesting people in the golf business.  I once had dinner with Gen. William Westmoreland, who inspired many of the same feelings for a different generation.  He was on the green committee at one of the clubs where we consulted.  We didn't discuss his former line of work.

Actually I heard a great story about Rumsfeld showing up to play at a very exclusive club north of LA in some sort of fancy track suit.  He was sent off with the admonition, "Sorry sir, that's not appropriate golf attire here at the _________ Club."

[Jim_Kennedy]

Springfield Oaks GC in Davisburg Mi., ca.1960, is another unknown. 

[Anthony Butler]

Did Doak learn who the architect of that course in the Himalayas was?

Jim:

It was designed by a retired British army officer, Maj. Ram Gurung.  He actually came out and walked with us when we played, but did not introduce himself as the designer of the course; it took me a few holes to figure out he was the designer.  I've never met a more modest person in this business, but of course, he isn't really in "the business".

I doubt Donald Rumsfeld plays golf, but you do meet some interesting people in the golf business.  I once had dinner with Gen. William Westmoreland, who inspired many of the same feelings for a different generation.  He was on the green committee at one of the clubs where we consulted.  We didn't discuss his former line of work.

Actually I heard a great story about Rumsfeld showing up to play at a very exclusive club north of LA in some sort of fancy track suit.  He was sent off with the admonition, "Sorry sir, that's not appropriate golf attire here at the _________ Club."

Having played at the "______ Club" on several occasions, I feel certain that Rumsfeld and his views would be welcomed by most of the members, minus the tracksuit.

P.S. Unlike most threads here that grow in the number of posts, this one seems to be shrinking.

[Tim_Weiman]

Did Doak learn who the architect of that course in the Himalayas was?

Jim:

It was designed by a retired British army officer, Maj. Ram Gurung.  He actually came out and walked with us when we played, but did not introduce himself as the designer of the course; it took me a few holes to figure out he was the designer.  I've never met a more modest person in this business, but of course, he isn't really in "the business".

I doubt Donald Rumsfeld plays golf, but you do meet some interesting people in the golf business.  I once had dinner with Gen. William Westmoreland, who inspired many of the same feelings for a different generation.  He was on the green committee at one of the clubs where we consulted.  We didn't discuss his former line of work.

Actually I heard a great story about Rumsfeld showing up to play at a very exclusive club north of LA in some sort of fancy track suit.  He was sent off with the admonition, "Sorry sir, that's not appropriate golf attire here at the _________ Club."

Having played at the "______ Club" on several occasions, I feel certain that Rumsfeld and his views would be welcomed by most of the members, minus the tracksuit.

P.S. Unlike most threads here that grow in the number of posts, this one seems to be shrinking.

Anthony,

Over the years of participation on this site I have made an effort to be respectful of the person who initiated a thread and part of what that entails is avoiding posts that hijack a thread.

My posts above have probably failed that standard. However, any reference to Donald Rumsfeld was probably doomed from the start to undermine or hijack discussion of the intended golf architecture topic because, inevitably, people would rush in and comment on Rumsfeld rather than the golf topic. I sat in class with the guy and talked to him but sure never talked about any golf topic!

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