Heather fairways at Ullerberg

[Ulrich Mayring]

Jud,

it's an interesting experiment, for sure. I'm curious as to how it turns out.

I don't think that monetary concerns are the exclusive aspect under which decisions for or against a club are made. Maybe they'll pull in members of other private clubs, who play infrequently and feel they can get the same experience for less at Ullerberg. But wouldn't you say that reasonably frequent players are usually the backbone of club life?

Ulrich

[Paul Gray]

I can't help but feel the wheel is being, well, not so much reinvented as reassessed for it's merits.

I rather like the idea of this scheme but am not convinced it's anything new. Isn't this really just an extension of the old 'away member' policy here in the UK? A member that doesn't live near to a course pays a suitable membership fee based on their proximity, or lack of, to the club.

I've actually been thinking lately just how much I'd like membership at a good second club but find current prices a little unpalatable. Not that I'm complaining. Clubs are free to charge whatever they think they can reasonably get without overcrowding their courses.

[Frank Pont]

Ulrich,

I do not get the fact that someone who plays only 6 rounds is anti social? Some of the most anti social people I have met on classic clubs are the people who play there every day.....

I think you can be a very social golfer, even if you only play 6 times a year, and play those rounds with visitors you know well or with other members who you know. It is called the. Match Play club for a reason, you need two players to play a match....

[Ulrich Mayring]

Frank,

I'm not saying there is a causal relationship between playing frequency and social ambitions. But from my experience there is a statistic relationship. Most casual golfers I know have a lot less time for golf than they would like and they certainly wouldn't give any of that up in favor of social activities. They fight their wife, their boss or their clients to somehow get those five hours every once in a while, but they never stay for drinks after the round. They would love to, but they can't.

But statistics, as we all know, are lies or even damned lies. They mean nothing to a concrete golfer. But there is an interesting bit of information in your last post: do I understand the concept correctly that I can't play alone? I always have to either bring a guest or arrange a match with another member?

That would probably keep the "lone wolf" away and also those who play infrequently due to time constraints. So most of my points are moot then

Ulrich

[Frank Pont]

I like the 6 round thing.  If you want to play 60 rounds you buy 10 of em.

Let's assume they'll get 1000 members, that makes for 6000 rounds a year. What sense does that make outside of Augusta National?

Ulrich

Ulrich,

 your math is off on a couple of dimensions.

First I assume that members play two rounds of 9 holes per visit. So with a thousand members that is 6 x 2 x 1000 = 12000 rounds

Second I assume they will bring guests for half of their visits. So that is an additional 3 x 2 x 1000 = 6000 rounds

Third I assume there will be 2000 independent green fee players each year. This is an additional 2 x 2000 = 4000 rounds

This gives a total of 22000 rounds a year, not packed but also not exactly Augusta.......

[Frank Pont]

Frank,

do I understand the concept correctly that I can't play alone? I always have to either bring a guest or arrange a match with another member?

That would probably keep the "lone wolf" away and also those who play infrequently due to time constraints. So most of my points are moot then

Ulrich

Yes you play Match play so either 2 or 4 people play together.

The other thing is that people make it a day out with lunch or diner with the person you play with, be it another member or a guest.

The goal is to have groups of friends join, to encourage members to bring guests, and finally to have a good "booking" system that allows you to find other members thinking of playing the same day. The airline KLM has a similar system where you can see which other interesting people are on a flight to say NY, and you then can request to sit next to them if they OK it.

The whole idea is to provide people with a place they can go and play golf and socialise 6 times a year for a much lower price than a full membership.

Not everybody wants to eat at a all you can eat restaurant for 35 euros, some prefer a tapas restaurant where each little dish costs 3 euros and you have 5 dishes......

[David Kelly]

Frank,

Would there be competitions that would allow members to play more than their 6 times? I'm thinking of things like a club championship, foursomes tournament, member-guest, couples, etc.

[Frank Pont]

Frank,

Would there be competitions that would allow members to play more than their 6 times? I'm thinking of things like a club championship, foursomes tournament, member-guest, couples, etc.

Good question, as you can tell the MPC idea is still a work in progress.

I would say yes, tournaments fit well with the Matchplay concept, as long as they do not put too much of a claim on the capacity of the course. Maybe they would be an extra 2 plays.... ?

[Ulrich Mayring]

Hi Frank,

you're painting a different picture now, your original posting made me think that there would be no greenfee players allowed and some other assumptions like the necessity to play in even numbers.

The way I see it now is that it is marketed more as a "second club" or "resort experience" (in the sense that I go there once a year with my friend or wife and pay greenfee). That is a proven business model, perhaps modulo the match play component, but that shouldn't hurt too much.

cheers,

Ulrich

[Frank Pont]

Hi Frank,

you're painting a different picture now, your original posting made me think that there would be no greenfee players allowed and some other assumptions like the necessity to play in even numbers.

The way I see it now is that it is marketed more as a "second club" or "resort experience" (in the sense that I go there once a year with my friend or wife and pay greenfee). That is a proven business model, perhaps modulo the match play component, but that shouldn't hurt too much.

cheers,

Ulrich

Yes sorry about not giving you all of the information in one go....

The one catch will be though that the one time green fee will be quite expensive, say 100 euros, in line with the top 10 courses in NL.  Idea is to make that green fee creditable if you join after playing your round, so almost seeing it as a trial round.

Finally idea is to make members commit for five years, this will the club the necessary financial stability.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Well, as a non-German you'd pay 110 Euros to play that terrible racetrack 9 holer in Frankfurt

Ulrich

[Paul Gray]

So, in effect you have a hybrid between a 'pounds for rounds' scheme now being prompted by many of the big chains and 'away member' status. Potential extra flexibility can be thrown in if offering a bit of chopping and changing to allow golf to be played at other clubs in the group. All of this, although hardly revolutionary, I like. Certainly I can see it being a successful business model, not least because it already is.

Really not sure however that matchplay fits in to all of this. Cute idea but surely too much of a paradigm shift, particularly when inherently dealing with a demographic looking for a bit of escapism through golf.

[Frank Pont]

So, in effect you have a hybrid between a 'pounds for rounds' scheme now being prompted by many of the big chains and 'away member' status. Potential extra flexibility can be thrown in if offering a bit of chopping and changing to allow golf to be played at other clubs in the group. All of this, although hardly revolutionary, I like. Certainly I can see it being a successful business model, not least because it already is.

Really not sure however that matchplay fits in to all of this. Cute idea but surely too much of a paradigm shift, particularly when inherently dealing with a demographic looking for a bit of escapism through golf.

Good question about Matchplay, I agree that is the uncertain part of it all. However, I think the Matchplay element will give the club something special, a more social setting and allow us to design a more excemtric and memorable course with elements that might be called "unfair" in a normal strokeplay setting. That coupled with the reversible course, if well designed and  excecuted, should be the differentiating factor.

[Ulrich Mayring]

So I assume the club is not going to issue official (EGA-based) handicaps for its members?

Ulrich

[Frank Pont]

So I assume the club is not going to issue official (EGA-based) handicaps for its members?

Ulrich

Its not the plan, you can have handicaps directly with the Dutch Golf Union anyways.
There also won't be a handicap and rules committee.
And the course won't have to be rated by the Dutch Golf Union either.
The benefits of Matchplay. 

[Ulrich Mayring]

You don't even have to be a member of the Dutch Golf Union. Money in the bank

Ulrich