Heather fairways at Ullerberg

[John Mayhugh]

Earlier today I saw a tweet from George Waters, who had visited the 9 hole De Ullerberg course with Frank Pont.  I didn't have a chance to see it when I was in Holland last year, deciding to wait until Frank's new course opens nearby.

I'm guessing not lots of roll on the heather fairways, but the setting looks idyllic.  Should be a great time with hickories.


George's tweet
https://twitter.com/gwatersgolf/status/456785778324942850/photo/1

Enjoy some of Frank's photos of the course
http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/Holland/Ullerberg/index.html

Frank's new project at Ullerberg. Be sure to take a look at the links for routing the two different 9s (reversible course).
http://www.infinitevarietygolf.com/projects-ullerberg-1.html

[Tyler Kearns]

John,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.  I'll be in the Netherlands next month, perhaps I'll add it to my itinerary.

TK

[Norbert P]

  Good to see you playing in the sand, George.

(Interesting how GCA.com is first find for "Ullerberg 9 hole" at Google.   But not that surprised.)

[Jon Wiggett]

Just had a look at the photo tour and Ullerberg look really great. I always liked the fact that at Alwoodley there was quite a bit of heather growing in the fairway but to have wall to wall heather fairways is really impressive. What a shame that golf/golfers are generally too narrow minded to tolerate such great and unusual ideas.

Jon

[Jud_T]

Can't wait to see and hear more about Frank's reversible nines.  This has to be one of the most interesting projects of the year.

[Frank Pont]

Jud,

we discussed reversible nines in a previous post where I also posted the text of Tom Simpsons 1930's article on the subject.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53521.0.html

The Blue course



The Red course





I think you are right the new Ullerberg project is quite interesting for a couple of reasons:

- First it will be a reversible 9 holes course. Since the site is too small for 18 holes, and there is no likely chance to expand to 18 ever, I thought of reviving Simpsons idea of the reversible course.

- Second it will be match play only. So you cannot play a qualifying card there, only matches. You pick the tee you want to play. Even thinking of making all of the course including sand through the green like at Friars Head.

- Third annual membership costs will be very low (few hundred dollars), but the catch is that a members play will be limited to 6 times per year. That way anybody can afford to be a member, and the club can accommodate up to almost 2000 members. Members can bring a guest for each of the times the come and play.

The brand name of the concept is The Match Play Club (TM), a website is in the making and more detailed information on the exact pricing and funding etc will be coming out later this year. Discussions are underway to build similar Match Play Clubs in France and the US near large Metropolitan areas.

Plan is to build the course in the pure sand that is on site with a small team of talented guys, this is one of the reasons George Waters and Jeff Stein have visited the site.

It will be interesting to see how the combination of 9 holes reversible and match play only will influence the design of greens, hazards and different tees. Would be interesting to get this groups thoughts on that subject.

[Jason Topp]

Frank:

A local architect in Minnesota, Joel Goldstrand, built a number of reversible 9 hole courses.  I am not a fan of his effort at Fox Hollow but have not played the others.  Fox Hollow's reversible nine is jarring to the eye and involves awkward walks to get from greens to tees.   I suspect a good nine hole course would have been more enjoyable.  I would guess reversible 9 hole courses are difficult to route and that constructing the green complexes so that they play well from different directions is a big challenge.

Goldstrand is not my favorite architect, so I would be interested in seeing the concept executed by another architect.  Best of luck with the project.

 

Here are some links to aerial tours:

New Richmond:  http://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/newrichmondgclinks18/aerial.htm

Fox Hollow:  (the site does not have a tour of the reversible nine but it is across the street from the one on this tour: 

http://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/foxhollowgc4/aerial.htm

Prairie Ridge

http://www.prairieridgegolf.com

Double Eagle

http://www.golfdoubleeagle.com

[Ulrich Mayring]

A business model where members can only play six times a year seems odd.

Ulrich

[Paul Gray]

Just had a look at the photo tour and Ullerberg look really great. I always liked the fact that at Alwoodley there was quite a bit of heather growing in the fairway but to have wall to wall heather fairways is really impressive. What a shame that golf/golfers are generally too narrow minded to tolerate such great and unusual ideas.

Jon

Hmm, much as I like the quirk of the idea, is the end result not simply the same as on overly green, sticky fairways, i.e. the only method of play is an aerial one? 

[Jon Wiggett]

What a shame that golf/golfers are generally too narrow minded to tolerate such great and unusual ideas.

Unusual, yes. Very cool for novelty value no doubt. But great? I adore heather but can someone define the playing characteristics of heather fairways? Call me a philistine but it doesn't look right to me.

Thanks for proving my point Brian

Paul, I do not know for sure but certainly the heather in the fairways at Alwoodley was not detrimental to the playing characteristics.

Jon

[Ulrich Mayring]

Well, the heather besides the fairways certainly was

Ulrich

[Jon Wiggett]

Brian,

maybe it is a bit unfair I do not know and I was not meaning to have a go specifically at you but you did prove my point. You are judging the book by the cover and not the story line or content. I also never said that Alwoodley's fairways looked like Ullaberg or visa versa but that they both have heather and at Alwoodley it certainly was not detrimental. To me it is more important how the playing surface actually plays and not what it looks like. It is also important to look at things in context so if the idea at Ullaberg was to take the land as it was and make the best of it then good on them. It could be that the ball sits up nicely most of the time and the high handicappers enjoy that, who knows.

Doesn't look right Brian! Why not walk in their shoes before you put them down is what I would suggest.

[Jon Wiggett]

Brian,

glad to hear the below response though it is at odds in my opinion with the first response you gave posted below.

Jon:

To me it is more important how the playing surface actually plays and not what it looks like

Allow me to clarify. What I meant was: it doesn't look like it would _play_ great. I think it _looks_ great. Very pretty. It looks like it would play similar to a really velcro like warm season grass. I am not putting anything down just commenting on what I observe from the pics and in response to your very bold statement (it was almost as if you were inviting an argument?)- would absolutely seek this place out in Holland so I'm afraid I don't fall into this imaginary category of short sighted people who would pass it by.

Call me a philistine but it doesn't look right to me.

Just to clarify, I do have an ideal type of course which is basically links playing F&F on smooth though not overly quick greens. I also prefer a slightly ragged at the edge look rather than the hyper manicured appearance. That being said I really like Ullaberg looking at the photos as it looks as though they had a heather heathland and rather than ploughing it up and planting a standard lolium/bent/fescue seed mix they have gone for a slower and kinder 'let it develop' approach which is often derided by many but makes for a diversity and interest missing in much modern golf.

I suspect with regular mowing the sward will present a most playable surface though even if it does not roll too well this does not make it bad but rather gives it a different challenge.

Jon

Jon

[Niall C]

Frank

Looks terrific on paper, would love to see what it would look like in reality.

What I like about the plan is the amount of diagonal carries from offset tees which I'm a big fan of. Do you think that was solely as a consequence of the reversible routing or is that something you try to incorporate anyway ? Whenever you see it on classic courses its usually because when they extended the hole at some point they couldn't take the tee any further back because of the proceeding green and therefore had to adopt an offset tee position.

Even as someone who is rubbish off the tee, I love that sort of challenge. Why do modern architects tend not incorporate this in their designs ?

Niall

[Frank Pont]

A business model where members can only play six times a year seems odd.

Ulrich

In Holland there is a very large group of golfers who only play 5-10 times a year. Many of them are not members, because the cost is too high. At the same time some of them miss belonging to a club. This model allows them to play at a high quality members club, without the time commitment and the associated costs.

The other group are members of a golf course that is close to their house but not that good, either because of poor design or because of poor sub soils (clay/peat). That is about 80% of the courses in Holland. For them joining a high quality course as a second club with limited play but also low fees is attractive.

This new course will be about an hour drive for most of the above mentioned golfers, a trip that seems OK for the 6 times a year you can play it under the current subscription. (obviously if you want to play it more you can buy multiple subscriptions).

[Frank Pont]

Guys,

the original heather golf course at Ullerberg is a product various historic and family driven circumstances:

- it was for a long time only used as the family golf course of the extended Waller family. Relatively little was done to maintain the course, and the course did not have very many rounds a year (in the hundreds per year would my guess). That is how heather fairways started and survived throughout the years. Any place where the traffic was or is more concentrated, even with these low volumes, the heather gives way to grass.

- the heather fairways are cut quite short (4-5 cm would be my guess) and the ball therefore sits up quite well and makes it very playable for all levels of players. The course does play long because there isn't a lot of roll on the fairways. The critique that it makes the golf more through the air and less on the ground therefore is a valid one in my perspective.

- the golf course therefore should be seen as a historic time piece that is a lot of fun to play occasionally, especially with hickories, but would be less fulfilling in my opinion to play every day.

- the course has been opened slightly to outside play for groups that value the historic background of the heather course.

- but mostly it remains the pride of the members of the Waller family who continue to play it on the weekends they stay at their estate at Ullerberg

[Paul Gray]

Frank,

In line with a few comments here, could you perhaps explain a little about the playing characteristics of heather fairways? As I said before, I wonder, beautiful though it may be, whether the only possible approach doesn't need to be an aerial one?

[Ulrich Mayring]

I really hope this project comes off, because the reversible nine concept is fascinating. Could be a model for limited sites, of which we might get many in the future.

The business model "low fees, prestigious private club, 2000 members, limited play" seems to contradict itself, but hey, why not try something new? They just need to be smart enough to keep it reversible as well

Ulrich

[Frank Pont]

Frank

Looks terrific on paper, would love to see what it would look like in reality.

What I like about the plan is the amount of diagonal carries from offset tees which I'm a big fan of. Do you think that was solely as a consequence of the reversible routing or is that something you try to incorporate anyway ? Whenever you see it on classic courses its usually because when they extended the hole at some point they couldn't take the tee any further back because of the proceeding green and therefore had to adopt an offset tee position.

Even as someone who is rubbish off the tee, I love that sort of challenge. Why do modern architects tend not incorporate this in their designs ?

Niall

Niall,

The diagonal tee shots are a function of the reversible course, because you do not want to play over tees if hitting into the greens from the other side. However it also fits very well with classic courses, Simpson for one was always emphasising diagonal tee shots. I also think it adds an element of heroic design to the course, especially when the rough is mostly heather.....

[Frank Pont]

I really hope this project comes off, because the reversible nine concept is fascinating. Could be a model for limited sites, of which we might get many in the future.

The business model "low fees, prestigious private club, 2000 members, limited play" seems to contradict itself, but hey, why not try something new? They just need to be smart enough to keep it reversible as well

Ulrich

Ulrich,

I agree this could be a great model for limited sites around Metropolitan areas, where there are enough golfers, but not enough good courses/clubs that are affordable. If the Match Play concept catches on I think the chain could become quite large.

On the concept I do not see the contradiction. The concept will be one of people loving the game, a sports club, rather than a traditional snobby club. Those have a limited role in the future in my view, see the dwindeling numbers everywhere. That high quality and low prices can coincide is being proven by Swinkelsche in the Dutch market, which is doing very very well.

The number of 2000 members is the maximum number, I expect to see between 800 and 1200 members, breakeven is around 600 members.

[Ulrich Mayring]

I see these contradictions:

Prestige - Low Cost. Those, who look for an exclusive experience, will not like it that anyone can afford to join.
Match play - anonymous membership. Hard to get to know members, if everyone is at the club no more than six times per year.
Occasional golfer - club. He's occasional, because he has little time for golf. Is he going to make extra time for club life?

Obviously, these contradictions can be overcome, but someone or something has to change for that. The occasional golfer either needs to make more time for his hobby, perhaps he will do that for a great club. Or the club needs to change to accommodate the "lone wolf" type of customer, who does not want any extra baggage on top of playing a round of golf, preferably by himself or with a buddy, who may not be a member.

But as I said, why not try something new? I would just suggest to the club to keep their model reversible. Otherwise they could get stuck with 400 members, who don't pay the bills, but like their position enough to resist changing back to a more traditional model.

Ulrich

[Jud_T]

Ulrich,

The only issue you raise that's potentially valid IMO is the match play vs. anonymous member concept.  They better not allow any USGA handicaps!  It's not prestige at low cost.  It's good golf at a fair price.  Same goes for club life.  They're not selling exclusivity and hobnobbing, they're selling fun golf with others who value such things. I like the 6 round thing.  If you want to play 60 rounds you buy 10 of em. 

[Ulrich Mayring]

I like the 6 round thing.  If you want to play 60 rounds you buy 10 of em.

That opens the door for the nomadic "lone wolf", who has no interest in a club, but likes to make the few rounds he can play every year count. He'll buy greenfees in packets of six, get a nice membership card for access elsewhere and basically ignore the social part.

I still don't get the point of restricting member interactions artificially. Let's assume they'll get 1000 members, that makes for 6000 rounds a year. What sense does that make outside of Augusta National?

And boy would I pissed as a member to sit on the porch on a gorgeous day and watch an empty course - and then the club president or owner comes round the corner and says: "Well, I think I'll go out for another quick nine. Don't you just love restricted member play. Ordinary member, that is!"

Ulrich

[Jud_T]

Ulrich,

1.  Would you rather pay 10 times as much for the right to play 3 times as much golf whenever you please?

2.  I'd assume that a meaningful number of those 1000 members would buy 2 or 3 6-round memberships so that you'd be pushing 10,000 rounds.

[Jon Wiggett]

If the club does 5000 rounds at £50 per round then it is taking £250'000 revenue which is more than enough for a 9 hole course. Indeed, you could halve that figure and be okay.

Jon