The Qualification > Experience Continuum

[Jonathan Mallard]

Tom,
One can be "grandfathered" into a professional engineer status in many states, but you have to document it pretty well, and yes it does seem like a barrier, but its also like filling out any application... can you deal with the details and get it done?

Um....  No they can't.


Nationwide, folks eliminated the acceptance of an oral exam about 2002, and removed code exemptions for folks that were incumbents in certain responsible charge jobs.


Now, states will grant professional engineering licenses via comity. In fact, the organization that administers the test runs a record maintenance service as a side business. However, establishing that is itself a rigorous process - as it should be.


We have disasters like the I-35W bridge in Minnesota, or the Kansas City Hyatt Skywalk, and folks are clamoring for less restrictions for credentials of folks responsible for such? 100 people died in Kansas City over a stupid mistake from an entry level drafter that wasn't caught by more senior folks.


Look at what happened in Atlanta Sunday. A bridge on a major interstate was irreparibly damaged and will be out of service for an extended period of time causing headaches for millions.


And how many injuries or deaths from this incident?


Zero.


I rest my case.

[Jeff_Brauer]

The idea that software engineers are pressed into service without many qualifications because of extreme need reminded me of my father's WWII story.


Prior to Pearl Harbor, the military had many long term experienced pilots.  After, they trained thousands of pilots (including him) quickly and sent them off to war with only a few dozen of hours of flying practice.  Sometimes, pressing need does over ride traditional need for qualifications.  His biggest concern was that the mechanics who worked on his planes were similarly rushed.......

[Steve Lang]

Tom,
One can be "grandfathered" into a professional engineer status in many states, but you have to document it pretty well, and yes it does seem like a barrier, but its also like filling out any application... can you deal with the details and get it done?

Um....  No they can't.


Nationwide, folks eliminated the acceptance of an oral exam about 2002, and removed code exemptions for folks that were incumbents in certain responsible charge jobs.

   Jonathan, can you please show me where I said anything about "oral exam?"

We have disasters like the I-35W bridge in Minnesota, or the Kansas City Hyatt Skywalk, and folks are clamoring for less restrictions for credentials of folks responsible for such? 100 people died in Kansas City over a stupid mistake from an entry level drafter that wasn't caught by more senior folks.

 Jonathan, Doesn't this argue that PE registration simply allows determination of liability?

Look at what happened in Atlanta Sunday. A bridge on a major interstate was irreparibly damaged and will be out of service for an extended period of time causing headaches for millions.

 Jonathan, I wonder whether any bridge has ever been spec'd to withstand a burning plastic pipe storage fire set by a criminal


And how many injuries or deaths from this incident?


Zero.


I rest my case.

I wouldn't rest yet...

[Bill_McBride]

Martin - Not much difference here with the medical professions. When you see a new doctor do you really know whether he/she is proficient at their profession? Their associations are no help... most recommendations come by word-of-mouth from friends and acquaintances. You take a lot on faith when you put yourself in their hands, do you not?

At least you can check out the diplomas posted on their walls!   Typically I rely on the implicit endorsement of their employers.

[Jonathan Mallard]

Tom,
One can be "grandfathered" into a professional engineer status in many states, but you have to document it pretty well, and yes it does seem like a barrier, but its also like filling out any application... can you deal with the details and get it done?

Um....  No they can't.


Nationwide, folks eliminated the acceptance of an oral exam about 2002, and removed code exemptions for folks that were incumbents in certain responsible charge jobs.

   Jonathan, can you please show me where I said anything about "oral exam?"


You didn't explicitly, but your grandfathering statement implicitly established the reference as it was in used prior to 2002 as a means or obtaining licensure.

We have disasters like the I-35W bridge in Minnesota, or the Kansas City Hyatt Skywalk, and folks are clamoring for less restrictions for credentials of folks responsible for such? 100 people died in Kansas City over a stupid mistake from an entry level drafter that wasn't caught by more senior folks.

 Jonathan, Doesn't this argue that PE registration simply allows determination of liability?


I don't think so. I think that it helps, but, it also establishes a minimum competence for persons to complete said work. Ergo, if the firm doesn't have those people on their staff, they will not be retained to complete the job. The firms always have deeper pockets. Witness who they went after for I-35W.

Look at what happened in Atlanta Sunday. A bridge on a major interstate was irreparibly damaged and will be out of service for an extended period of time causing headaches for millions.

 Jonathan, I wonder whether any bridge has ever been spec'd to withstand a burning plastic pipe storage fire set by a criminal


And how many injuries or deaths from this incident?


Zero.


I rest my case.

I wouldn't rest yet...

[Bruce Katona]

Jeff & Tom:

I always thought those of us trained as LA's would well remember the edict taught the 1st week of of Design & Construction:

"Water will almost always flow downhill - the only exception is when its pumped".....draining large grassed areas at 1.5%, 2.0% or 2.5% take a bit to master both in design and in construction implementation....those silly piles of grass clippings cause cause a problem if they're dropped in the wrong spot.


BK