[Tom Kelly]

This is from the "In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta" thread, but perhaps the question I ask is even more relevant to this one.

"The green is situated in the bend of a stream. The approach has a marked tilt upwards from left to right, so that the further and more accurately a drive is placed to the LEFT the easier the second shot becomes."

Surely the left side Mackenzie refers to for the best placed drive is when looking at the hole from the green? But the upwards tilt he refers to is from the tee-green perspective, is it not?

Did Mackenzie actually think the left side from the tee was the place to approach the green from?

[Jim Nugent]

11 had the highest average score against par yesterday.  4.4742.  It also had the fewest number of birdies and the biggest number of bogeys. 

Wonder what percentage of the field hit the green in reg? 

[Brent Hutto]

I like seeing the players chip from a variety of slopes and lies short and right of the green. I like seeing them chip toward the water. I like how pin-high right is better for some hole locations while short of the green might be an option for others. And I certainly like the fact that if one is bold or stupid enough they can try to hit a right-handed draw that starts out to the right and comes back toward the green/pond.

To me the 11th is like the most reachable Par 5 you'll ever see, moreso than being like a long Par 4. Which is cool...reachable 4's are always great and the second shot at the 11th has a similar flavor to the tee shot on a reachable Par 4 except with the variety of lies on the sloping fairway instead of having the ball teed up. But it's really that kind of hole. The field will average closer to 5 than to 4 but any given player can make a 3. Good half shot Par hole.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Kelly,

The "upward left to right tilt" he refers to is at the front of the green.

[Phil McDade]

The field will average closer to 5 than to 4 but any given player can make a 3. Good half shot Par hole.

Brent:

Thank you for highlighting one of my pet peeves -- folks who think a good half-par hole should always be on the birdie side of things. A good half-par hole should also be one where bogey is just as likely as par.

[Brent Hutto]

I went and looked, the hole is actually averaging about 4.4-something so far. Man these guys are good.

But yeah, I like seeing Tour players occasionally have to adjust their expectations from "Par is like kissing your sister" to "Just trying to grind out a par".

[Matthew Petersen]

One thing I notice in all of this is that for all the tok about how much pros love to aim at bunkers ... no one wants to be in the bunker right of 11 green. It's not just that everyone plays right, they play right and short.

Maybe that would be different if it weren't all short grass, and guys would prefer the bunker? (But if that's true what does it do to our notion that better players are tested more by short grass?)

Or maybe not, since the second shot is significantly downhill and potentially more likely to bury in the sand?

Anyway, I like a lot about the hole. I think there are a lot of options around the green and agree I have no problem with a half par hole on the plus side (especially given the holes that follow). I do think restoring some width to the right side of the fairway would make it even better, since there's zero strategy on the drive at that hole right now.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mathew,

Hitting to that bunker brings the water and X's into play

[Matthew Petersen]

Mathew,

Hitting to that bunker brings the water and X's into play

Of course it does. I'm simply noting that the fact that the bunker brings that risk more into play than the fairway does sort of puts the lie to the argument that pros would always rather be in the sand.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mathew,

Hitting to that bunker brings the water and X's into play

Of course it does. I'm simply noting that the fact that the bunker brings that risk more into play than the fairway does sort of puts the lie to the argument that pros would always rather be in the sand.

Not at all.

You're confusing being in a bunker vs the rough, with the risk involved in getting to that bunker, a bunker that acts as a "safety net" bunker

[archie_struthers]

 


It's not the distance , it might have been the wind yesterday , but if the new trees are gone it's better for all

[Dan Smoot]

Scott,

From 180 to 210 NOBODY is going to attack that flag off of the lies at 180 to 210 when the flag is to the left portion of the green in a medal play tournament.

You can't win the Masters on # 11, but you sure can lose it there, especially with dumb play.

Just ask Larry Mize

I agree with what you said.  With 13 and 15 coming up as potential eagle chances, why take the chance.  If the width and approach from the right was there,  maybe.  Did the original design facilitate more aggressive play from the right side???

[Patrick_Mucci]

Scott,

From 180 to 210 NOBODY is going to attack that flag off of the lies at 180 to 210 when the flag is to the left portion of the green in a medal play tournament.

You can't win the Masters on # 11, but you sure can lose it there, especially with dumb play.

Just ask Larry Mize

I agree with what you said.  With 13 and 15 coming up as potential eagle chances, why take the chance.  If the width and approach from the right was there,  maybe. 

Did the original design facilitate more aggressive play from the right side???

I believe it did for several reasons, the most important of which is that it allowed you to use less club and play short and right.
essentially taking the water out of play and letting the terrain feed the ball to the green.

I think it also allowed the golfer to get to the back of the green without flirting with the water.

It's not a birdie hole by any stretch, but being able to hit your tee shot far right presented you with a less threatening approach.

[Keith Grande]

What about Kuchar's shot from the pine straw down the left side?  Best shot of the tournament on #11

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