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Joshua Pettit

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In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« on: April 10, 2014, 03:36:29 PM »
That Augusta National has survived all these years and become a cornerstone of Golf is nothing short of miraculous.  Study of the club's formation and evolution, though frustrating at times, is always captivating (perhaps now more than ever).

Here's to another 80 years and hopes of an eventual return to its architectural roots.

Cheers!

Hole by hole profiles from the first invitational program:




















« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 09:12:10 PM by Joshua Pettit »
"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

Tim_Cronin

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 06:03:09 PM »
Nice. Had forgotten the program (reprinted a few years back) featured the elevation profiles.
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 06:27:56 PM »


Joshua,

It is  a shame that  the Club that  gets such panegyrics, when remembering that the architect, begging for his fee, was stiffed.

One source is David Owens book "The making of the Masters". See pages 65 through to 68. The best stuff on the Masters and Bobby Jones is written by Sidney Matthew whose vast collection has recently been transferred to Emory University.

Bob

BCrosby

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 06:58:35 PM »
Bob -

MacK was indeed stiffed, but then so were virtually all the other contractors who sold materials to or performed services for ANGC during the  construction of the course. They were an unhappy lot.

Interestingly, the leading case in Georgia on what constitutes "due negotiation" of an instrument involved a note signed by a 'Robert T. Jones, Jr.', issued by ANGC to an irrigation contractor who did work for the club in 1933, for which ANGC was unable to pay in cash.   

Bob

Tom Kelly

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2014, 08:19:04 AM »


"The green is situated in the bend of a stream. The approach has a marked tilt upwards from left to right, so that the further and more accurately a drive is placed to the LEFT the easier the second shot becomes."

Surely the left side Mackenzie refers to for the best placed drive is when looking at the hole from the green? But the upwards tilt he refers to is from the tee-green perspective, is it not?

Did Mackenzie actually think the left side from the tee was the place to approach the green from?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 10:14:29 AM by Tom Kelly »

Thomas Dai

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2014, 09:07:57 AM »
Joshua,

Very interesting to see the plans plus the elevations as well. Thank you for posting.

So, as I read the illustrations, certain holes are inspired* by certain other holes on others courses, namely -

Current hole Number ('old' hole number)

1 (10)
2 (11)
3 (12)
4 (13) 11th at TOC
5 (14) 17th at TOC
6 (15) Redan at N Berwick
7 (16) 18th at TOC
8 (17) 17th at Muirfield
9 (18)
10 (1) 13th at CPC & 4th at Alwoodley
11 (2)
12 (3)
13 (4) 17th at CPC
14 (5) 6th at TOC
15 (6)
16 (7) 7th at Stoke Poges
17 (8) 14th at TOC
18 (9)

* = my choice word, other words may describe matters better.

atb

Patrick_Mucci

Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2014, 10:33:48 AM »
Tom Kelly,

I think he's referring to the area fronting the 11th green

Tom Kelly

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2014, 10:52:32 AM »
Tom Kelly,

I think he's referring to the area fronting the 11th green

Does the approach have a "marked tilt upwards from left to right" if standing on the green looking back up? I've never set foot on the property but from what I've seen on TV and from photos it looks like the mounding short of the green feeds almost all of the fairway and approach towards the water. Only the very left side (right from tee) of the fairway once over the mounds and to the side of the green seems to fall away from the water, can this be described as the approach? Not in my opinion. Has the approach been changed since Mackenzie's day?

Joshua Pettit

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2014, 01:24:19 PM »
"The green is situated in the bend of a stream. The approach has a marked tilt upwards from left to right, so that the further and more accurately a drive is placed to the LEFT the easier the second shot becomes."

Surely the left side Mackenzie refers to for the best placed drive is when looking at the hole from the green? But the upwards tilt he refers to is from the tee-green perspective, is it not?

Did Mackenzie actually think the left side from the tee was the place to approach the green from?

Tom,

I think yes, MacKenzie meant exactly what he wrote.  The left-to-right upward tilted approach (the left side of the mound just short of the green) can be used as a backboard to propel incoming shots left and forward toward the center of the green.  The farther to the left one approaches the green from, the better angle you have to take advantage of the backboard, or sideboard if you'd like.  It's hard to get a sense of the slope's severity from this photo, so don't let that throw you off.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 06:16:46 PM by Joshua Pettit »
"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

Joshua Pettit

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2014, 01:36:53 PM »
Joshua,

Very interesting to see the plans plus the elevations as well. Thank you for posting.

So, as I read the illustrations, certain holes are inspired* by certain other holes on others courses, namely -

Thomas,

This was not uncommon for the MacKenzie.  For instance, at Meadow Club the Fifth hole is an Eden and the Fourteenth is a Redan.  And the San Isidro course he planned in Argentina was to have 15 "reproduction" holes.



« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 06:21:33 PM by Joshua Pettit »
"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

Joshua Pettit

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2014, 01:48:34 PM »
Hole by hole photos from the 1935 program (except No. 7):



















"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

Thomas Dai

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 04:18:38 PM »
This was not uncommon for the Mackenzie. For instance, at Meadow Club the Fifth hole is an Eden and the Fourteenth is a Redan. And the San Isidro course he planned in Argentina was to have 15 "reproduction" holes.

Joshua,

Thanks for this. Not easy to spot the holes that caused the 'reproduction' from the versions that exist on the ground today, both from the perspective of the original hole and from the perspective of the near/semi copy.

The 1935 photos are most interesting. I'd certainly like to play the 1935 version. I'm sure others would too!

Your point about playing the 11th, namely "take advantage of the backboard, or sideboard if you'd like" seems consistent with the point I made about playing a hook out to the right on the 15th prior to the right hand bunker being installed (and when presumably the tress were not so plentiful?) and before the pond was over the back. If you've played some F&F golf with hickories or very old steel shafted club, as I have, you'll be aware of how important and very useful, indeed sometimes essential, a backboard or sideboard is in shotmaking and how with whippy hickories (and even old steel shafts) a full-shot draw is much easier to play than a full-shot fade (at least in my experience) and given that greens were slower years ago 'draws' weren't as uncontrollable when coming into a green as in more modern times. Any thoughts on this folks?

Regarding the 8th hole, supposedly influenced by the 17th at Muirfield, there are several, probably 6, maybe even 7, very similar shaped greens at Worcester GC in the UK, a Dr Mack' design from the late 1920's. Some of them, like ANGC's 8th, are bunkerless, but some are bunkered at the sides or front but all have that noticeable long-and-thin with a bit of waste and curve and mounded on both sides, and you have to be in a pretty exact position/angle in the fairway to play into them or you're won't get close to the pin, especially if you're playing run-up (as against modern high and spinny) shots into them. The holes don't these days play long, given modern clubs and balls, but they play tight - not in any way easy up-n-downs if you find yourself pin-high left or right coming over a hump to a very narrow green. There are I'm sure other Dr MacK' courses in the UK that have greens like this,I know Walsall GC near Birmingham does. I believe I've seen photos of similar looking greens at the Jockey Club in Argentina.

atb



Jaeger Kovich

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 10:07:30 PM »
Joshua - These are awesome, thanks for sharing.

Peter Pallotta

Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 10:53:52 PM »
My thanks too, Joshua.

Laid out like that in the program, the sequence of holes makes so much sense, the balance of various lengths and shot shapes, and the clear (and relatively simple) approach/strategies to best playing each hole -- as I say, the design just seems to be so nicely logical. 

Peter

Joshua Pettit

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2014, 12:35:27 PM »

Thanks for this. Not easy to spot the holes that caused the 'reproduction' from the versions that exist on the ground today, both from the perspective of the original hole and from the perspective of the near/semi copy.


Thomas,

That's in part because what exists today in many respects is quite different from what MacKenzie & Jones built, but also because their intent wasn't to "reproduce" holes as much as it was to draw inspiration from some of their favorites.  I think the "not copies of classical holes but embodying their best features" approach they took at Augusta was somewhat analogous to what Tom, Jim and Co. did at Old MacDonald.

Here is a more thorough explanation from the horse's mouth:

« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 05:08:28 PM by Joshua Pettit »
"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

Niall C

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Re: In Reverence of Eight Decades at Augusta
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2015, 07:28:52 AM »
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