The 18 Greatest Links Greens

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think we need to add some photographs to this thread.... Any of the above...

Here's the punchbowl 5th at Strandhill:




And here's the 12th at Rosapenna OTM:

[Tony_Muldoon]

Do you want a great 18th green?

On many links courses the 18th is on flatter land to get you back to the clubhouse, but it’s still puzzling that no one has suggested a candidate.  Perhaps designers have tended to avoid extreme greens on the finishing holes?

Those that are in a great location and/or have interesting surrounds.
TOC
Wallasey
Saunton East
Dooks

Playing the 18th at RSG an approach from the right is unwise and the left hand side of the green falls away. But like many greens there, get the ball in the right place and you’ll have a flattish put. Very good but not great and the perfect end to a round?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Have the recent changes to the 11th at TOC made it less than great?

[Niall C]

Ally

On reflection, since you have the 16th fairly well covered can I replace the 16th Moray Old with the 18th at Moray Old. Not nearly as interesting in terms of the internal contours but a cracking green to approach in the context of the hole.

Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

Niall, to be honest, I'd prefer to leave in the ones with the interesting internal contours, especially if (apparently) natural.... Doesn't matter if we have some holes missing...

Tony - Could choose any double green from TOC, especially 7/11... But thought I'd stick with just the one...

This exercise is as much about me trying to find greens to study... Always a selfish objective...

[Scott Warren]

Royal Cinque Ports 1-18.

[Sean_A]

To me 7/11 at TOC is the obvious choice.  

#7 Pennard


#17 Littlestone - though I probably wouldn't nominate it for this thread


#10 Princes - a possible candidate if only because the green is incredibly harsh given the length of the hole and wind


#9 Sandwich


#6 Ballybunion Old



I think #8 is the best Ballybunion candidate




#9 Ballybunion


#9 Lahinch - the very long green sort of wraps around the dune


Strandhill's 5th is cool because of its position and the front drop, but I think the 1st is a better green for such a reachable par 5.


#14 Nairn - wonderful green and brutal for such a long par 3



I also forgot a great candidate - Burnham & Berrow's 16th



Co Sligo's 4th - I wouldn't nominate it for this thread, but I like the hole a load.


Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

Ally

earlier Peter asked if we were choosing a wide variety of different types of links greens.  Most of those selected don't fit a type as they use unusual land movement and bunkering is not the key feature?

As well as the two additional holes at Princes I referenced an example of an underused 'type' I love is also found on the 13th at Elie

http://www.golfhouseclub.co.uk/the-course/hole-13/

This is a green benched into a dune with a large fall off to the front, but approached from an oblique angle.  Thus you have to play to the high side of the green or roll off down the slope.  AS you are not hitting directly into the slope the ball will roll on landing and it's hard to predict where it will finish.   The 9th at North Berwick almost pulls this off, but being a par 5 most shots in are with a short club and there is the opportunity to position yourself on the LHS of the fairway making it a much simpler shot.

 Maybe this becomes easier with multiple plays and is why this 'type' is not so famous, but I have always enjoyed the challenge they present.  I have never understood why this 'type' is not used more.  I can't decide if they play more difficult than they look, or it's the other way round!

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean - You're da man!... Thanks... (Agree about the 1st at Strandhill - need to get rid of the left fronting bunker though)...

10 Princes does look lovely...

6, 8 & 9 at Ballybunion are all great...

9 at Lahinch is 56 yards long last time I paced it... Interesting thing here is everyone believes this is one of the few MacKenzie originals left but I found minutes from 1935 talking about flattening this green also - it was perhaps just less obvious than the other work...

B&B's 16th looks really cool... As does Nairn 14 - I will be seeing that for the first time in June....

Tony - I love the 13th green at Elie... As you say it is of a "type" and that "type" is one of the most copied in modern golf design... i.e. a benched green located at an oblique angle (more often than not the "draw")... There are a lot of examples... Is Elie the best?... Perhaps?....

[Adam Lawrence]

Sean - have you been at Burnham since Martin Ebert completed the green extension at 16 over the winter? If so, how does it look? I know Martin is pleased with it.

Here's a picture from Twitter of the work in progress

https://twitter.com/latourthethird/status/396338335226273792

Adam

[Mark Pearce]

If we're looking for a 10th hole we could do worse than Elie, sloping steeply away from the approach (a wedge if you haven't driven the green) with just a couple of very shallow flatter (but not flat) areas in the front half of the green.  Very easy to be through the green in one and still find par tricky.

[Sean_A]

Sean - have you been at Burnham since Martin Ebert completed the green extension at 16 over the winter? If so, how does it look? I know Martin is pleased with it.

Adam

Adam

I like the extension a lot if only because they cleared out the buckthorn behind the green   - something I have advocated for 15 years to create a chipping zone    Some members are not sure if they like it and are worried that its too roly poly for hole locations.  They may have to do so some flattening, but I hope they open the green as is and see how it goes.  

I want you to tell M&E that they need to drop hints on the club to:

1. Knock down the berm behind the 7th green over the water.  There is a cool view waiting to be uncovered.

2. Rip out the horrible bush on the corner of 18 fairway and replace it with a bunker.

3. Create fairway left of the fairway bunker on 7.  

4. Push the fairway all the way to the water on 7 & 8.    

What are you waiting for?

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Here's another nominated... Par-3 15th at Portsalon stolen from Mark Ferguson's photo thread with his words... A series of mini-bowls running from high left to low right (angle of approach from right of photo):

The most heavily undulating green on the course, with an absolutely evil back left pin in a bowl behind the bunker that feeds off down the hill.
You might be able to get some idea of it from this.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Tony - I love the 13th green at Elie... As you say it is of a "type" and that "type" is one of the most copied in modern golf design... i.e. a benched green located at an oblique angle (more often than not the "draw")... There are a lot of examples... Is Elie the best?... Perhaps?....

Ally "lot's of examples"?  On modern links? Where are you thinking of?

I think it woks particularly well on a links because with the effect of wind and the firm ground, the ball seems to find the slope all to often and run, run away.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Tony - I love the 13th green at Elie... As you say it is of a "type" and that "type" is one of the most copied in modern golf design... i.e. a benched green located at an oblique angle (more often than not the "draw")... There are a lot of examples... Is Elie the best?... Perhaps?....

Ally "lot's of examples"?  On modern links? Where are you thinking of?

I think it woks particularly well on a links because with the effect of wind and the firm ground, the ball seems to find the slope all to often and run, run away.

I meant lots of examples in modern golf design (including some links - I can think of one or two at Noordwijkse for a start and there must be one at Kingsbarns) but especially parkland... I agree it works best on links (as most hole types do)... Examples from older courses - has to be the odd one but happy to go with Elie because it's a beauty...

[Mark Pearce]

Doesn't the 13th at Elie have many similarities as a green to a Redan?  Certainly the best shot is nearly always a draw, landing front right and releasing down the green.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Here's the 7th at Rye:

[Ian Andrew]

Doesn't the 13th at Elie have many similarities as a green to a Redan?  Certainly the best shot is nearly always a draw, landing front right and releasing down the green.

Played it today.
Yes it does, but it wasn't the green we talked about all round.
The 4th was the one we thought was absolutely brilliant with its central spine beginning out in the fairway... wow!

[Ian Andrew]

The 1st on the Eden Course

[Ally Mcintosh]

Doesn't the 13th at Elie have many similarities as a green to a Redan?  Certainly the best shot is nearly always a draw, landing front right and releasing down the green.

Played it today.
Yes it does, but it wasn't the green we talked about all round.
The 4th was the one we thought was absolutely brilliant with its central spine beginning out in the fairway... wow!

Ian (or anyone else),

You don't have a photo, do you?... It's too long since I played Elie and I can't recall the 4th green at all...

Ally

[Tony_Muldoon]

Doesn't the 13th at Elie have many similarities as a green to a Redan?  Certainly the best shot is nearly always a draw, landing front right and releasing down the green.

Played it today.
Yes it does, but it wasn't the green we talked about all round.
The 4th was the one we thought was absolutely brilliant with its central spine beginning out in the fairway... wow!

Ian (or anyone else),

You don't have a photo, do you?... It's too long since I played Elie and I can't recall the 4th green at all...

Ally

Ally, From a special Tony award winning thread!
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50582.0.html

The 4th has been discussed on here: like the 8th at Burnham and Berrow what makes the holes a spine running down the centre of the fairway.  The careful player will observe where the pin is and play to that side of the fairway.   A very cool and subtle feature.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Doesn't the 13th at Elie have many similarities as a green to a Redan?  Certainly the best shot is nearly always a draw, landing front right and releasing down the green.

Played it today.
Yes it does, but it wasn't the green we talked about all round.

This puzzles me a little

On the Original Redan you don’t need a draw to get the ball running down the hill. Too much of a draw and you can finish a long way off the green.  ON these benched holes I would have thought the ideal shot was high and travelling as much as you can manage perpendicular to the overall slope i.e. at Elie a fade? As I said above getting the balling running on those greens in my experience normally leads to disaster.

[Sean_A]

I was thinking an 18th candidate could be Seascale.







Ciao

[Neil Regan]

I think Baltray's 14th can fit in any 18.
I went looking for a picture, and what did I find?
Ian Andrew has posted on his website a copy of a
wonderfully detailed sketch of the contours of the whole green and site,
done by Tom Mackenzie, and published in one of Paul Daley's books.
Here is the link to Ian's site.

Tom Mackenzie's Sketch of Baltray 14th


And from the club's website:
County Louth Golf Club, Baltray

[Michael Felton]

There are a couple of greens at Royal Porthcawl that are pretty good. The 9th on top of the hill (don't miss) and the 18th I think had a pretty impressive set of internal contours. Tough to get the ball close to the hole. Sorry i don't have any pictures.

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