Babson Park

[Kevin Robinson]

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.8488217,-81.5250451,1082m/data=!3m1!1e3

Is this the remains of Raynor/Barton's Babson Park Golf and Yacht Club?

[Sven Nilsen]

Kevin:

A couple months back Jim Kennedy sent me the same link you just posted with the thought that it might be a course called Crooked Lake Golf & Yacht Club.  Crooked Lake course became Babson Park Golf & Yacht Club in 1924 according to a Florida Secretary of State report.  Whether or not that course was located on the site in your link, I have no idea.

There isn't much out there on the history of the course, other than a few ads noting a golf course in Crooked Lake from around 1921 that are primarily designed to sell land to orange growers.  At some point Roger Babson purchased the town (resulting in the name change), and ended up forming Webber College around 1927 (there are also listings for a Webber College GC, and I have no idea if it was a separate course or just another name for the Yacht Club course).

The timing of the name change suggests to me that Babson's involvement with the area was after the course was initially built, which raises some doubt as to whether or not he as involved with its initial construction.  I could have that wrong, and it could be that Babson had interets in the area well prior to 1924 and did indeed hire Raynor/Barton.

Sven

[Kevin Robinson]

I could not see anything else in the area that remotely looked like a golf course...but the three street/roads closest to this one are named "Tee Lane" "Fairway Drive" and "Golfview Road"

[Sven Nilsen]

I agree that there was a golf course in the spot you pointed out, I just have no idea which course. 

The fact that Babson Park/Crooked Lake was also a yacht club makes me wonder if it was located closer to the lake.  But it is possible that the golf and boating facilities were separate. 

If you found something that said the Babson Park golf course was located on Fairview Drive, that would pretty much settle things.

Sven

[John Butler]

Roger W. Babson lived at Mountain Lake, in nearby Lake Wales with a Raynor course, beginning in 1923.  Cornish & Whitten list Babson Park G&YC (9 1921 NLE) under Raynor.

[Kevin Robinson]

It's incredible how little documentary evidence of this course exists. Several contemporary newspaper articles mention it - but little else.
I've been in touch with some folks down there but no new info yet, really. George Bahto had some info regarding the particulars but it's a subject that has had little to no interest on this site, apparently..so there's been no discussion and George typically only chimed in with relevant information on threads that had already been started regarding Macdonald, Raynor, Banks...etc.
 - I've found a topo map from the 1950's that shows NO golf course in the vicinity of Babson Park, even in the location I pointed out in my original post.
 - I've also found, with some help, a mention of a golf course and clubhouse that once existed very close to the small peninsula jutting out into Crooked Lake just to the SW of Webber University...which is of course in a completely different location!!
 - I consulted my copy of Daniel Wexler's book, in which he mentions it being "lakeside" , which would make the peninsula area a more viable suspect...but there was obviously a golf course in the other location, and it would seemingly be just as short-lived and mysterious...

[Jim_Kennedy]

The area in 1941. Pretty murky aerial.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071778/00068/8x?vo=13&vp=2920,768

There are other years available to search

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/aerials/all/table/4

[Kevin Robinson]

I can't figure out how to post it yet, but I was forwarded some great info about the club. It would appear that Crooked Lake Golf and Yacht Club and Babson Park are one and the same. The course was built and opened as Crooked Lake and the name was changed shortly thereafter when Roger Babson bought the town. The club apparently thrived with golfing, regattas, and was the social center of the small community until it disbanded in 1958. I even have a photo of what would appear to be either the 9th green or putting green...but no features are identifiable...
The info I received states that the course was built "on the Point" which I am presuming must be Wirt's Point, which is the small peninsula that juts out into Crooked lake just to the SW of Babson Park. This is corroborated by yet another publication that mentions a "former" golf course and clubhouse, but the way it was worded suggests to me that these were across the cove from Wirt's Point.
This does not even take into account the NLE course just NW of Webber Intl. U....the aerials I have been able to dig up (same as Jim Kennedy's) show very little detail either on the point or at the other location, which isn't even covered in the 1941 aerials. The 1941 aerials do show quite a bit of cleared land on the point, but nothing that I think could be definitely identified as hole corridors for a golf course! According to this recent info, the golf course still had 17 years of existence remaining and should be identifiable...
There's more than enough evidence that the course once existed, but there's still very little info to be found that might give
us any idea where it was located...

[Sven Nilsen]

Here are the articles Kevin mentioned in his last post:

[John Butler]

The honorary judges for the 1926 regatta, Babson, Heckscher, and Bok, had homes at Mountain Lake Club, which lends credence to Cornish & Whitten's listing of Raynor's 1921 work at Babson Park (Crooked Lake).

[Sven Nilsen]

You can make out a bit of the course in the aerial on the UF site:

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071778/00019/31x?vo=21&vp=1640,0

I'll try to get a screen grab later.

Sven

[Sven Nilsen]

Best I can do for now (date of 1941).  The Babson Park course was located on the little peninsula jutting out into the lake, and it appears that there may have been another course in the location noted by Kevin in his initial post (tough to tell), perhaps the Webber College course.

[Kevin Robinson]

Sven...I spent the better part of Saturday afternoon looking at these old aerials...and these photos are tantalizing...and I would dearly love to be able to say we've found it. However, no amount of straining my eyeballs is helping me pick out what could have been more than what would appear to be enough cleared land/hole corridors for 3-4 holes at the most...and I don't think the appearance changes significantly from 1941-1958.
Maybe others are seeing something that I cannot...but could there possibly be nine golf holes in these 1941 aerials??

[Sven Nilsen]

Kevin:

Its possible that the golf course had been abandoned by 1941.  The club closed in 1958, but we don't necessarily know how long they maintained the course itself.  Wouldn't be the first place to give up golf in the '30's.

I think there was plenty of room for a 9 hole course on the peninsula, but that 1941 aerial makes it look like a few holes had been covered in rows of newly planted trees.

Sven

[Kevin Robinson]

I've figured out how to use the zoom function on those old aerials - on the UF website. There are NO recognizable golf features in the 1941 aerial on Wirt's Point.

I think one of a couple of possibilities are in play here.

#1 - The golf course was long gone by 1941. The reference to the club still existing might refer to the yacht portion of it. Nothing that resembles a yacht club or marina is visible in this location in the 1941 aerial either.
#2 - The golf course existed in a different location altogether - references to it being on "the point" notwithstanding.

[John Butler]

Cornish & Whitten credit Raynor for only 9 holes in 1921 as Babson Park G&YC.  My reason for making the connection with nearby Mountain Lake Club is that Raynor having done 18 holes previously at ML understandably may have done 9 holes down the way at Crooked Lake/Babson Park.  I'm interested in the apparent Raynor connection as well as ML homeowners (Babson, Heckscher, and Bok) involved at Crooked Lake/Babson Park.

[Sven Nilsen]

Kevin:

Babson Park Golf & Yacht Club is noted in the 1938 Golfer's Yearbook, so if it was abandoned it would have been between '38 an '41.

Sven

[DMoriarty]

Can't delve to deeply into this, but is there any chance the mystery course was the first 9 holes of the Lekarica Course immediately to the north?   That course (aka Highland Park) is listed as by Styles and Van Kleek, 1927, but one article written at the time of the opening suggest there was already (at least) 9 holes there before this.   The course is visible in 5B-45 and 5B-45 in the aerials.


EDIT:  Re-reading above it looks like they must have been different courses.  Oh well.

[Rees Milikin]

I am pretty sure this isn't Babson Park, but since it is located pretty close to Crooked Lake, I thought I would ask if anyone knew about this 9 hole course that was located just northwest of Big Gum Lake (I am assuming this was a golf course b/c it sure looks like it to me):  

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071778/00010/35x?vo=12&vp=1234,2884 & http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071778/00010/36x?vo=11&vp=1030,945

This area now appears to be just orange groves.

[Rees Milikin]

I've figured out how to use the zoom function on those old aerials - on the UF website. There are NO recognizable golf features in the 1941 aerial on Wirt's Point.

I think one of a couple of possibilities are in play here.

#1 - The golf course was long gone by 1941. The reference to the club still existing might refer to the yacht portion of it. Nothing that resembles a yacht club or marina is visible in this location in the 1941 aerial either.
#2 - The golf course existed in a different location altogether - references to it being on "the point" notwithstanding.

Did a little digging and found this 1941 aerial image of the course that was located just northeast of Webber University (Kevin's link: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.8488217,-81.5250451,1082m/data=!3m1!1e3).  It definitely has some Raynor bunkering characteristics and after driving by the area today, it was a great piece of land for the golf course.  I also checked out the aerials from 58 and through the 60's and it looks as if this is when the course was abandoned.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071778/00019/12x?vo=32&vp=3189,2817

[Nigel Islam]

Is this the location for the 1921 Yacht Club Course? Note this is the Peninsula below Wirt’s Point.


http://polknature.com/explore/crooked-lake-prairie/


I think the course Kevin found was built by Babson in 1926.


Now who designed either course is a mystery in and of itself.

[Tim Leahy]

What's the deal with the giant flag sticks in one picture?

[Nigel Islam]

What's the deal with the giant flag sticks in one picture?

That’s pretty interesting. I hadn’t noticed that. Good pick up.


Alps hole?