The Ace Club & The Black Knight

[Matt_Ward]

Had the pleasure in being at the grand opening of The Ace Club in Lafayette Hill, PA.This new Gary Player course certainly packs plenty of punch as it plays 7,471 yards from the tips and is a par-72. For those wondering I will say this as a teaser -- The Ace Club is far beyond two other local Player designs -- Olde York in Columbus, NJ and the TPC at Jasna Polana in Princeton, NJ. How much better?

More on the course later ...

During the press conference with Gary Player I asked him regarding the stature of Tiger Woods versus that of other great champions -- himself included. Player's response?

Tiger has had more difficulty winning tour events than Jack, Arnie and himself but that WINNING MAJORS has been more easier for Tiger than it was for Jack given the Golden Bear's competitors and their winning records.

Gary also mention how crucial it will be for Tiger to find the right mate if and when he decides to get married. Player mentioned how fortunate that he, Jack and Arnold had find such super women to guide their lives and those of their children.

A fascinating day with one of the game's great champions and personalities. More to come later today on that and The Ace Club ...

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt;

That's very encouraging to hear.  Will look forward to your report later, and am eager to get over there to see it.

Of course, you should mention that the lead architect for ACE was Warren Henderson (of Arcadia Bluffs fame), particularly when comparing it against other "Gary Player" designs that were not so advantaged.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

Don't know if anyone else saw it, but Player did a "Playing Lessons with the Pros" episode on the TGC that took place at the ACE Club.  Of course he gushed over the course and it's beautiful views and 'non-overly-sloping' greens.  Also commented on strategy, too.

You could tell that the course wasn't fully grown in yet, as there were bare patches everywhere.

[JSlonis]

Here is a link to an article I posted previously:

http://www.philgolfmag.com/

[Robert Kimball]

Yeah Scott, you beat me to it.  I saw the Playing Lessons episode as well.  
I give the "old guy" credit, he can still hit it. Of course, I don't know what tees he was using, but nonetheless pretty impressive display.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike C:

Mea culpa in leaving the part out of Warren Henderson. The reason why The Ace Club DOES succeed in so many ways is because of the contributions from someone as talented as Warren Henderson.

*****

A few more specifics on The Ace Club. Unlike other "official" Gary Player courses in the past the cumulative nature of The Ace Club is quite good and in spots very impressive. There aren't the lack of real details you see with other Player courses and I hand it to Gary to become linked with someone as gifted as Warren Henderson -- FYI, I really enjoyed Arcadia Bluffs in MI.

As I said previously the course plays 7,430 yards from the Black markers and UNLESS you can hit the ball a decent ways off the tee with power and accuracy you will be seeing black quite quickly with your score! It's best advised to play from a more forward tee area. Just keep in mind that the "Gold" tees still play at 7,180 yards.

I don't have any slope and course rating info to post -- I don't know if that has been completed as of yesterday when I was present.

The property, as many know, used to be the site of the former Eagle Lodge Golf Club. From the reports I was told the old course was not that bad -- I never had the opportunity to play it so I can't say for sure.

A hole-by-hole description ...

*All distances quoted are from the "Black Tees."

1st hole (372 yards). The round starts with a blind tee shot over a rise. There are bunkers left that you can see off the tee but the further you go right the better angle into the smallish green protected nicely on the left bu a deep bunker. It is possible to come near the green with the tee shot because after you clear the rise there is a downslope that carries on through to the putting surface. Long hitters can certainly come near the green if they bust it.

2nd hole (476 yards). Superb par-4 that plays downhill and moves ever so gently to the left. You will see two fairway bunkers on the right and it's best to work a "draw" off of them if possible. The hole does play a bit shorter than the listed yardage. The green is also well done as it has a front section that falls away into a minor dip before rising to a back section. Althougb it's listed as long the hole requires more control than power.

3rd hole (610 yards). Good par-5 with everything in view. The hole asks you to play a fade around a sight bunker that is easily carried. The second shot offers you the option in playing to a "high" or "low" side. The best play is to go right in order to open up the putting surface.

4th hole (201 yards). A very bland par-3 that has a basic green and only one real solid pin placement -- dead right.

5th hole (385 yards). Risk'n reward driving hole. There is a
H-U-G-E fairway bunker that requires no less than a 270-280 yard carry from the tips. The hole starts from an elevated tee and you have to decide what way works for you. The purdent play is to hit an iron or fairway metal to the right and approach the green from that angle. Strong players can give it go for the green because of the elevated tee. I hit a driver and landed in the greenside bunker on the right. Great option hole but more so for the weaker player.

6th hole (193 yards). Good par-3 that has a large and deep bunker on the left side. A strong step up from the first par-3 played at the 4th. Green is also quite large and anyone with more than a 30 footer runs the risk of a three-jack.

7th hole (439 yards). Good driving hole as it dog-legs left with a cluster of bunkers at the corner. Get too frisky with cutting the corner and you can add a quick bogey or worse to the guard. The green is also well contoured and protected.

8th hole (375 yards). Best short par-4 on the course and a reason why The Ace Club is beyond what a singular Gary Player course has been in the past. The drive must decide how aggressive to be as the hole swings right and uphill near the green. The further down the fairway you go the easier the shot but the fairway gets tighter than a python's grip. The approach shot is also good as the green is set up above the fairway with a well done false front that catches the weak play. The green is contoured nicely without being excessive. The hole will give up birdie but the dumb play will not get by with an easy four.

9th hole (546 yards). Could be the most out-of-place hole on the course. The hole features an array of options but it's overdone and overcooked with the use of serpentine water hazard that cuts the hole in sections. Gary it seems has carried over with the ideas he used with the 3rd at Jasna Polana and I just think the hole is an overload of different aspects that is far and beyond what you see when playing most of the holes at The Ace Club. I'm sure others will like it but I thought a tad softer edge would have been the better alternative IMHO. It's not a bad hole but throwing in all the bells'n whistles wasn't really needed here.

10th hole (471 yards). Calls for a stroing tee shot that favors the left side. Pull the slightest amount and a few trees will block your path. It's important to point out that Tha Ace Club does have trees but they never really intrude on the intended line of play. The green is also well done as it sits above the fairway and is angled diagonally from right to left. You need two smart shots to get near the surface and a deft touch once on it.

11th hole (445 yards). The hole usually pictured on The Ace Club and a top one to boot. Here you have a downhill hole that turns left (if you play from the tips) and you must secure the proper placement at the botton of the line for a mid-to-short-iron to a green that wraps itself soooooooooo close to a pond that guards against the pulled approach. The green also features a rise in the middle section so that if you land in the wrong part you'll have to work for the two-putt. #11 is the #2 handicap hole and it's one you won't forget after playing it. This is the kind of hole that Player would not have done previously. It certainly is a honey here!

12th hole (231 yards). Plays downhill so that the yardage is not the same as the card indicates. A huge bunkers protects the left side but the green is not severely contoured.

13th hole (441 yards). Tight driving hole -- the further you go down the fairway a large bunker cuts in from the right and the rough pinches in from the left. The green again is also protected well with a large bunker on the left and the putting surface falls away slightly from the approach.

14th hole (223 yards). Another drop-shot par-3 with multi-level tees scattered about. The green is the key as it has a two tier section. If the pin is placed deep on the left the shot has to be superb to get near the target. I liked the hole but have to wonder if two drop-shot par-3's were really needed.

15th hole (439 yards). Plays uphill and has two large fairway bunkers deep down the left side. The green is another winner as it falls abruptly to the right. I hit a PW from about 130 yards and the ball just kept moving right after landing. Listed as the 12 handicap hole but don't underrate it.

16th hole (594 yards). Plays from an elevated tee to a fairway that slopes right. Again, I not a fan of the false look you see with all the shaping taking place. The hole works from a practical point of view but for those who favor the natural "look" the 16th is a bit forced. The hole swings right and if you have to determine at the tee how much to cut-off. The second shot is really a lay-up as only the longest of long can attempt to carry the creek that cuts in front of the green. The putting surface is well done as it features a neat rise in the back two-thirds of the green. Being in the wrong place is a s-u-r-e three-putt.

17th hole (428 yards). Plays uphill at the tee and from the approach shot. Again, you have the massive amount of shaping from both the tee shot and approach perspective. The hole didn't really need all the detailing by man's hand to work. Again, a good hole but a bit much on the "forced" look.

18th hole (602 yards). Best par-5 on the course. The fairway slides a bit left and you have room to really crank it out there if you choose. The second shot is dictated by how far you hit the tee shot. For those looking to play safe you can play asecond shot to a generous landing area but it's best to get nearer the left side -- go too far and there is a bunker waiting to grab you.

Overall, The Ace Club has plenty to see and appreciate. The Player / Henderson combo have not come forward with a lame design that has often been the case with a number of other Player courses.

The terrain at the site is also first rate stuff. There are plenty of hills but nothing that could prevent someone from walking the course if they desire. Not every hole is slam dunk winner but there's plenty at The Ace Club that will test the fullest range of players when you play the right tees.

I give it a thumbs up and on the Doak scale if pressed for a rating # I'd give it a solid 6.5. The Ace Club may be the kind of success that Player needs to break the pattern of other efforts that were never near the level of other "player" designers that are working today.

P.S. The condition of the course is still going through a grow-in as a few of the fairways are still having some sections with new sod placed while other fairways are extremely firm and in need of consistent and uniform surface.

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt;

From tee to green the course sounds (and looks from pictures) quite interesting.

However, as the guy who told us that the key to Laurel Links is "the greens", how would you describe the greens and their surrounds at the Ace Club?  I'm a bit wary of them, knowing Player's affinity and philosphy of flattish greens.  Beyond the surfaces themselves, how interesting are recovery shots once one misses those greens?  

Thanks!

[Jason Mandel]

i live literaly 3 minutes down the street from the ACE club, and drive by it every day.  

i would love to go walk the course just to see what was done with the property.  i, like many, was very skeptical since eagle lodge was a good course to begin with.  

i also believe there is no need for a 7400 yard couse, and that you don't build courses for pga tournaments(unless your going to call yourslef a TPC).,

i have heard that the initiation fees are borderline ridiculous, about 50K for single members and 100K for corporate  memberships.  

who can justify this?  there are so many good courses in the area, albeit some are tough to get into.

does this course justify the cost?  i know commonwealth does the corporate thing, and it appears to be successful, but will the area be able to support this?

jason

[Mike_Cirba]

jmandel;

We must be neighbors.  I'm over in Plymouth Whitemarsh, about 3 miles from the course.  

I agree that the Eagle Lodge course, a 1982 Rees Jones design, was pretty good, and I had the same negative feelings you did when I heard it was slated for the junkheap of history.  Still, I'm encouraged to hear Matt's report and I know that Warren Henderson has a good track record.  The pictures certainly look intriguing.  

We should get together and play sometime!  

[Jason Mandel]

plymouth-whitemarsh, i went to plymouth-whitemarsh! i live in laf. hill, across from green valley off of spring mill road.  

anyway, we should get together, i want to try and set a date soon to get you mayday, wayne, tom paul and anyone else whos close out to white manor, possibly set up a mini outing or something

jason

[Matt_Ward]

Mike C:

You raise a good point about the nature of the greens. The key at The Ace Club is that a few of them are INDEED interesting. Take for example the 2nd hole -- this longish par-4 has a green consisting of three unique sections but it isn't so garrish or "in your face" to be deemed severe.

On the flip side there are a number of holes at the course where the greens are fairly pedestrian and if one does get short-sided you still have the opportunity to up'n down for a par and walk on the next hole.

The Ace Club has plenty of architectural details from the tee and on many of the approaches. From some of the Player courses I have played in the past these sort of details were lacking.

In sum -- I would say my mark of 6.5 on the Doak scale is related to the factor of a few of the greens. However, I also believe that people need to take off the "attitude" before playing in thinking that The Ace Club is simply about 7,400 yards in change and has no real merit. It has plenty of it but the neighborhood it exists is one of the very best in the nation and the bar is quite high.

I think many people will come away with a better appreciation on the talent of Warren Henderson and what he adds to the relationship with Gary Player.

If the opportunity arises in '04 I hope to return play The Ace Club again. If people go to The Ace Club and think they will be playing a masterpiece on the level of Merion / East or a few other classic courses in Phillie they will be a bit underwhelmed but if they approach it with a fresh perspective on how mdoern architecture can mesh with what what's been achieved in that area you will play a course that hold its' head up well. Once the turf conditions becomes settled I am sure the experience in playing there will only increase the enjoyment. The property the course sits on is indeed quite good.

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt;

Thanks.  Are you saying that the course might be even higher than a Doak 6.5 if not for the generally tame greensites?

jmandel;

Yes, I know those fellows well and would love to get together.  Just let me know what you're able to schedule.  Thanks, and I'll look forward to it!  

[Dan Herrmann]

Some pics and other information can be found here: http://www.theaceclubonline.com/Default.asp?p=DynamicModule&PageId=94660&b=1

[Matt_Ward]

Mike C:

Please realize that not ALL the greens at The Ace Club are "tame." You have a few that are just pedestrian and do permit players to escape from situations that other courses would not permit so easily.

There are also a number of other holes at The Ace Club where the putting surfaces are well done -- I mentioned the 2nd hole -- you also have the 11th with its dynamic serpentine green that hugs the protection of a neighboring pond -- a grand hole indeed!!!

How much more would my estimation of the course rise with 18 solid greens? Tough to say -- at a minimum a full point.

P.S. The Ace Club is well done with what is expected from one's tee game and your approaches must be well thought out for a number of holes. In this area the Henderson / Player tandem have done well.

[Warren_Henderson]

Matt,

I am glad you had a chance to come and play at ACE, but I am disapointed that you did not take the time to talk with me. I unfortunatly did not meet everyone in attendance but would have enjoyed discussing the merits of the course with you.

I am a self professed lurker on this site and I check in periodically to read through some of the threads. I find it interesting to read the various opinions, educated or not.

I do have a few responses to your interpretations of the course. I am always fascinated to read hole descriptions by people not intimate with a project.

The opening of the course was dictated by the schedules of the owners and Gary Player. Everyone recognizes that the course conditions will improve with time, holes 1 and 9 are only 8 weeks old. Superintendent John Canavan and his staff are doing a great job and we are all confident the course will be in prime condition throughout by next season.

The fact that the course is built to 7471 yards has far more to do with the topography and wind effects than addressing the needs of a theoretical professional tournament. You played the course from the white markers at around 6700 yards. With 9 of the holes playing substantially downhill, the course plays significantly shorter than the listed distance. Add a wind similar to Tuesday and a course set up at 6700 will play much more like 6350.

Hole 4: I can understand how this par three may seem bland to you following the drama of the 476 yard 2nd and 610 yard 3rd. The three fronting bunkers are offset at an angle to create indecision on club selection. Once the crowned green firms and the wrap around approach matures, this mid iron hole will provide plenty of challenge. Additionally, the design calls for the restoration of a wall which ran perpendicular to play, short of the bunkers. This wall was displaced by a regulatory agency required sediment trap. Sections of the wall remain in the trees to the right and will serve as the model when completed under the direction of John Canavan this fall or next spring.

Hole 5:  I disagree with your ascertion that this hole provides options only for the weaker player. If played from the correct tees the options are afforded to every one as well as the penalty for failure to execute.

Hole 9: Many people have picked this as their favorite hole and I agree that the eye candy has impact on that decision. The fact that the hole offers three different routes on the second shot just makes it fun. When the fescues mature on the left, right and background it will achieve the softer look you refer to, remember this hole is an 8 week old baby. In regard to the stream, this feature evolved during the permitting stage of the project when old plans and photos revealed the existence of a spring long since rerouted through pipe, was not the idea of Mr. Player and has no connection to the 3rd at Jasna Polana, a course which I have intentionally not yet visited.

Holes 16 and 17: Hole 18, your self professed favorite par 5 on the course, required more shaping and earthwork than holes 16 and 17 combined. I find it ironic that you believe the 16th is forced with all the supposed shaping that took place. Hole 16 was made possible by the construction of the wall on the underside of the fairway. This wall allowed us to mitigate some of the severity of the existing cross slope. The fairway is at natural grade with the exception of the fill behind the wall. The shaping that took place was to work in the low and high side fairway bunkers and to create the cart path and diversion swale along the upperside of the hole. Similarly the 17th fairway sits in what was the pond on old hole 16, this of course was filled. The right side of the hole is worked off of what was the dam from the pond, creating the drop off down to the stream corridor.I wonder if your interpretation of excessive shaping is the fairway grading to create catchments for storm water on the left side of the hole. As with 16 there is a large watershed dumping down onto 17, these depressions are a part of the drainage system and also provide for fairway contouring and varied lies. The biggest aspect of the shaping on this hole was to tie the green complex back into the rear land form extending down from hole 1.

Hole 18: You short changed the strategy description on this one. The second shot provides two options, stay right of the 2nd landing area bunker and you have to deal with the carry of the green side lake on your third, carry the 2nd landing area bunker and the green opens up, beware though, at this line the slope to the lower right tier of the green can more easily draw in your ball.

I belive I made the offer of showing the course to Mike C in the past but he has yet to take me up on it. Let me know if at some time in the future you and others would like to tour the course.

[Mike_Cirba]

Warren Henderson;

Thanks for posting you insights re: the ACE Club.  The course certainly has a great look to it, and it's educational to hear the designer's thoughts about each hole.  I'm sure others here are similarly appreciative.  

I just sent you a note to your personal email.  

[Matt_Ward]

Warren:

I appreciate your comments but keep in mind mine IN THEIR TOTALITY.

I do like The Ace Club and said so a number of times -- if I erred in accurately describing the nature of how the holes were built so be it -- like Mike I'd like to take a future tour of the course with you -- nothing like learning from the folks who did the work. However, I don't make it a point to talk about a golf course unlike a few on GCA -- some of whom you know! My opinions are mine -- simple as that -- and when I make return visits to places if I was in error I say so.

The Ace Club has a number of real challenges and even though I thought it lacked a few items that I spelled out -- I do believe it will acquit itself quite nicely in the hotbed of superior golf that is the Philadelphia area.

P.S. Warren -- I did have a conversation with Gary Player and given the time constraints everyone was under -- golf didn't start until 2:30 PM (as you know) it did not present too many free moments to speak with all the key parties. Look forward to it next time -- by the way just to let you know -- congrats on Arcadia Bluffs -- it's one of my personal favorites courses.

One last question -- are you now working with Gary Player on a fulltime basis or will you be involved on certain projects from time to time?