Tom Winton

[Jim_Kennedy]

George Bahto once wrote: "After spending the better part of a year at Sleepy Hollow CC it seems Tom Winton’s work, that was sandwiched between the work of Macdonald and Tillie, may have been some of the more interesting work done on the course. I’d like to know where some of his ORIGINAL (basically untouched) work is.

That's quite an accomplishment for Ol' Tom Winton. He once wrote that he didn't like over watered or large greens, he thought 90' was sufficient, and he wasn't a fan of mounds. I'm not familiar with his courses, any opinions?
    
The list of his works, most found on GCA in posts from Mark Chalfant, Neil Regan, and Wayne Morrison, some from C/W's book, and the few at the end are 'new' ones I found while scrounging around in the newspaper archives.      


Siwanoy ( remodel 9 holes)
Woods Hole CC (9 holes)
Westport Inn GC
Lawrence Farms CC
Allview CC
Congressional CC (reconstruction)
Big Springs CC
Toms River CC
Corning CC
Mill River CC
Fall River CC (this was a re-arrangement of 9 holes)
Lynnhaven CC
Gedney Farm CC (reconstruction 7 holes)
Amityville CC - (AKA Chapelfields GC)
Colgate University (NLE)
Private course for Donald Woodward
Mohansic Park GC
Maplemoor GC
Saxon Woods GC
Sprain Lake GC
Kings Ridge NY
Hollow Brook CC -Peekskill NY
Cranmoor CC -NJ
Portchester CC NY
Westport GC - NY

Remodels (from C/W):

Big Spring -  Louisville
Congressional CC
Apawamis -NY -r. greens
Sleepy Hollow- NY
Westchester CC -r. greens, 36 holes

East side of the pond:

Coombe Hill -UK
South Herts -UK

The 'new' ones:

Woodcote Park -UK - "...imprinted on the 137-acre site by the club's first professional Tom Winton under the expert guidance of Harry Vardon."

Bailey Park-  NY - W/Tillinghast - Early in 1922 Walter Travis was at a party at the club and he deemed their land perfect for a golf course, but he wasn't selected for the job, and the club seems to have been dragging their feet with the work, they only had 9 holes open by August, 1924. Coincidentally, the Cross County Pkwy. took the club's land in 1925. I said 'coincidentally" and "took", but the mayor of the town was one of the originators and landholders of the club when it was founded in 1922 - and Winton went to work for the Westchester County Park commission shortly thereafter - Hmmm.      

Sylvan Lake GC NY  -6 hole course

Westport Harbor -RI -9 holes

Bronxville GC - NY - This was a men's only club backed by Jesse Winburne, a NY banker who purchased $12, 000,000 of Westchester County real estate for the purpose of building golf courses (sounds familiar), and they posted a "Men Only" sign on the front gate of the golf course in 1925.  



Any others?  

Hopewell Valley GC – Hopewell Junction, NJ – 1927
Sunset Hill GC – Ossining, NY

[Sven Nilsen]

Jim:

Three more to add:

Hopewell Valley GC – Hopewell Junction, NJ – 1927
Mount Kisco GC – Mount Kisco, NY (might be the same as Lawrence Farms)
Sunset Hill GC – Ossining, NY

Are Tom's River and Cranmoor the same course?  Same for Portchester/Kings Ridge and Westport Inn/Westport?

Sven

[Jim_Kennedy]

His photo doesn't match the picture I had 'drawn' of him, but here he is.




Sven,
Hopewell Valley was one that I saw in a post from Mark Chalfant and I somehow left it off, thanks. 
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32760.0.html

Mt Kisco is the same as LFarm

[Sven Nilsen]

The 1931 Annual Guide has listings for Lawrence Farm and Mount Kisco.  Perhaps they were different courses.

[Jim_Kennedy]

There was a Mt Kisco GC, along with LF, but it was a nine holer and there before Winton.

[Sven Nilsen]

The Bronxville citation is interesting.  The Annual Guides have one entry for Bronxville CC in 1925 and the only information given is that the club is going to take over the Mount Vernon CC course in 1925.  The guides have entries for Mount Vernon CC from 1920 through 1931, giving it a date of formation of either 1917 or 1918 (depending on which guide you look at).  In 1926 Mount Vernon went from 9 to 18 holes.

Sven

[Sven Nilsen]

Two articles courtesy of Jim.

The first is from Sept. 5, 1924 edition of The Sun, and discusses the following courses:

Chapelfields (Amityville, NY) - 9 holes being worked on, will be 18 holes
Mohansic
Hollowbrook CC (Peekskill) - 18 holes
Woods Hole CC (MA) - 18 holes
Fall River - rearrangement of 9 holes
Westport Harbor (RI) - 9 holes
Corning (NY) - 9 holes
Lynnhaven CC (Norfolk, VA) - 18 holes



The second is from the April 9, 1925 edition of the same paper noting the origins of Sylvan Lake (I'm pretty sure the reference to Beacon is supposed to be to the town of Beekman).

[Neil Regan]

There was a Mt Kisco GC, along with LF, but it was a nine holer and there before Winton.

I could be wrong, but I think that the current Mt. Kisco was done by Tom Winton, and the existing club moved there from the other course. That area of Mt. Kisco is still known as Lawrence Farms, and numerous old buildings remain, including the famous Kittle House restaurant and inn, which overlooks the 18th and 1st holes.

[Neil Regan]

In 1916, Tom Winton became the Greenskeeper at Ross's new Siwanoy, which opened in 1915.
Harry Vardon knew him from back in England, and called him a fine architect who has done wonderful work at Siwanoy.

Winton worked for the seed and landscape company that helped build Winged Foot, among other courses.
I have an article by him from c1925, with photos of the "famous Winton bunkers at Siwanoy."
I will try to post that later.

One of my favorite courses is Mohansic. I love Mt. Kisco too, and have played both countless times.
There are greens and greensites on each that make me very sure, without evidence, that Winton had some connection with Winged Foot and Tillinghast. The mention above that they worked together in 1924 is the first evidence I have seen, and I am ready to believe it.

[Neil Regan]

George Bahto once wrote: "After spending the better part of a year at Sleepy Hollow CC it seems Tom Winton’s work, that was sandwiched between the work of Macdonald and Tillie, may have been some of the more interesting work done on the course. I’d like to know where some of his ORIGINAL (basically untouched) work is.

George and I went to see Mohansic a couple of years ago, probably 2012.
He loved what he saw, and we putted a bunch of the greens.
George, of course, made an 80 footer with 20 feet of break on the 8th.
I will post some photos of Mohansic later if anybody cares to see.
I think it is a superb routing on a site as good as any in Westchester.

Another fan of Mohansic is former Masters champion Tommy Aaron.
I met him out there one October evening doing what I was doing, taking pictures.
We spent a bit of time doing some challenge putts.
I saw what you would expect to see: a great putter.

[V. Kmetz]

Count me as fan of Mohansic - it is the best of the Westchester Municipals...

The long 9th hole is a beautiful and unique hole among other unpolished gems there.

cheers

vk

[Jim_Kennedy]

There was a Mt Kisco GC, along with LF, but it was a nine holer and there before Winton.

I could be wrong, but I think that the current Mt. Kisco was done by Tom Winton, and the existing club moved there from the other course. That area of Mt. Kisco is still known as Lawrence Farms, and numerous old buildings remain, including the famous Kittle House restaurant and inn, which overlooks the 18th and 1st holes.

That seems right.  A 11/11/29 article in the Yonkers Statement said  An l8-hole golf course, lying In a natural depression between low wooded hills, will comprise some of the 155 acres on the large reservation set aside for sports on Lawrence Farms, the development now going on between Mount Kisco and Chappaqua. Designed by Tom Winton of Tuckahoe, the course has no blind greens. The greens and fairways have all been seeded, providing for play next Spring  and it went on to say  The name of this new club will, in all probability, be the Annandale Golf and Riding Club. The AGRC name only seems to have lasted for one article, and Lawrence Farms prevailed.
http://tinyurl.com/mebhl8v

I was mistaken about the first course being nine holes - I read Mt Kisco's history page too fast, especially where it mentions that the Town of Mt. Kisco welcomed its first golf course in July, 1917, on the former Daly estate property adjacent to the present course, just north of today’s front nine. It was called Mt. Kisco Golf Club, 6100 yards in length, and was the site of the 1923 Westchester Open, won by George McLean with rounds of 74 and 70=144, with Joe Turnesa, two strokes behind in second place.  and continues with During World War II, the old Mt. Kisco Golf Club was forced to close and most of its members joined the Lawrence Farms Country Club. These new members had sufficient influence to change the name of Lawrence Farms Country Club to the Mt. Kisco Country Club.
http://www.mountkiscocc.org/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=305762&ssid=192839&vnf=1

It appears that the new members got their way on the name change prior to April, 1941, as printed in the 3rd column of "The Sport Parade".
http://tinyurl.com/kbkgtza

There is no way to create a direct link to the course, but it's an easy site to search.
http://giswww.westchestergov.com/gismap/

I'd like to see your photos of Mohansic.     

[Sven Nilsen]

Jim:

I took the liberty of reorganizing your list by date and added in locations and dates.  Let me know if anything looks like it needs to be changed.

Had some questions on Gedney Farm.  There are notes that the course dates from 1914 and was first designed by Peter Clark, their first pro.  At some point in the early '20's, the club was looking to build a new 18 hole course.  There are also notes of Westchester Hills GC playing over the old Gedney Farm links.  Did Westchester Hills take over the old Gedney Farm course when the new course was built?  Which

Siwanoy CC (Bronxville, NY) – 1916-1925, remodel 9 holes.
     -Same as Bronxville GC?
Fall River CC (Fall River, MA) – 1918, remodel of 6 hole A. Fenn course, add 3 holes.
     -Sept. 5, 1924 The Sun article notes Winton rearranging 9 holes.  Did this work take place later?
Corning CC (Corning, NY) – 1920, 9 holes.
     -Sept. 5, 1924 The Sun article notes Winton laid out 9 holes.
Bailey Park (Mount Vernon, NY) – 1922, with A.W. Tillinghast, 9 holes.
Mill River CC (Stratford, CT) – 1923, 18 holes
Bronxville GC (Bronxville, NY) – Pre-1925.
     -Same as Siwanoy CC? 
Mohansic Park GC (Yorktown Heights, NY) – 1925, 18 holes.
     -Sept. 5, 1924 The Sun article notes Winton course to be laid out at Mohansic.
Woods Hole CC (Falmouth, MA) – 1925, 18 holes (9 hole Findlay course dates from 1898).
     -Sept. 5, 1924 The Sun article notes Winton laying out 18 holes.
Hollow Brook CC (Peekskill, NY) – 1925, M. Park 9 hole course dates from 1919.
     -Sept. 5, 1924 The Sun article notes Winton laying out 18 holes.
Cranmoor CC (Toms River, NJ) – 1925, original design.
     -Same as Toms River GC?
Sylvan Lake GC (Beekman, NY) – 1925, 6 hole course.
     -April 9, 1925 The Sun article notes 6 hole course by Winton.
Westport Harbor GC (Westport Harbor, RI) – 1925, 9 holes.
     -Sept. 5, 1924 The Sun article notes Winton laying out 9 holes, 18 planned.  Guides only have 9 holes completed.
Lynnhaven CC (Norfolk, VA) – Date Unknown.
     -Sept. 5, 1924 The Sun article notes Winton laying out 18 holes, Guides only have 9 and give a date of 1922 for the course.  Did Winton do the original course?
Amityville CC (aka Great South Bay GC and Chapelfields GC) (Amityville, NY) – 1926, 18 holes.
     -Sept. 5, 1924 The Sun article notes Winton laying out 18 hole course at Chapelfields.
Congressional CC (Rockville, MD) – 1927, remodel.
Hopewell Valley GC (Hopewell Junction, NJ) – 1927, 18 holes.
Maplemoor GC (White Plains, NY) – 1927, 18 holes.
     -Other sources have an attribution for “A. Capper.”
Sleepy Hollow CC (Scarboro-On-Hudson, NY) – Pre-1928, remodel.
Sprain Lake GC (aka Sprain Brook GC) (Yonkers, NY) – 1928, 27 holes.
Westport GC (aka Westport Inn GC) (Westport, NY) – 1928, 18 holes.
     -Preexisting 9 hole course by T. Lee.
Kings Ridge Club (Portchester, NY) – 1929.
     -Same as Portchester CC?
Sunset Hill GC (Ossining, NY) – 1929, remodel of existing 9 hole 1924 course.
Saxon Woods GC (Scarsdale, NY) – 1930, 18 holes with A.W. Tillinghast.
Lawrence Farms CC (Mt. Kisco, NY) – 1930, 18 holes.
     -Did Winton have any involvement with the pre-existing/separate Mount Kiscos GC?

Date Unknown:

Apawamis Club (Rye, NY) – Date Unknown, renovated the greens.
Westchester CC (Rye, NY) – Date Unknown, renovated greens on 36 holes.
Gedney Farm CC (White Plains, NY) – Date Unknown, reconstruction of 7 holes.
Colgate University (Hamilton, NY) – Date Unknown.
Allview CC (Ellicott City, MD) – No information on this course other than a notation that it was in Ellicott City.
Toms River CC (Toms River, NJ) – Date Unknown.
     -Same as Cranmoor CC?
Private course for Donald Woodward – No information on this course other than Woodward was a good player from Washington, D.C.
Portchester CC (Portchester, NY) – Date Unknown.
     -Same as Kings Ridge Club?
Big Spring CC (Louisville, KY) – Date Unknown, remodel of original 9 hole G. Davies course

East side of the pond:

Coombe Hill -UK
South Herts -UK
Woodcote Park -UK

[Ed Homsey]

Sven and Jim--

Re the Donald Woodward 9-hole course:  Donald Woodward was a member of the Le Roy, NY Woodward family that was a major manufacturer of patent medicines from mid-1800s until they purchased the patent for Jello.  While his brother ran the very successful Jello company, Donald stayed in the patent medicine business.  He was a man of an inventive mind who didn't hesitate to get into many interesting actitivites, including aviation (he built the Le Roy Airport and hobnobbed with famous aviators), and restaurant business.  He was one of the founding members of my club, Stafford CC.  He had a major estate on the east edge of town, in Le Roy, and it was there that he had a 9-hole course built by Tom Winton.  I need to check this further, but I believe that course was expanded into what is now the Le Roy CC, a semi-private course.  I came across a reference to Winton's work for Woodward just the other day.  I'll see if I can track that down.  Winton's work there in Le Roy would have been in the mid-late 1920s.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Ed,
Sent you a PM, thanks.

Sven,
I'm looking at an article that says the Park Commission acquired 101 acres from the Maple Moor GC that included a nine hole course, but one that hadn't opened yet. I'm sending it, and the site it came from, to you.
Thanks for getting all that stuff sorted out and posted.

Brian,
Thanks for that info. As you said, their site doesn't mention him.  I'm relying on other posts from this site and a newspaper article or two when it comes to Coombe Hill. We'll see what happens.      

[Jim_Kennedy]

Sven,
I think that Westchester Hills and Gedney Farms are two distinct places.

[V. Kmetz]

All,

Gedney Farms was the former name (until 1952) of the now defunct Ridgeway CC course which was/is right across the street from Westchester Hills.

I'm fairly sure that the:

Mount Vernon GC was the course Siwanoy abandoned in 1914 for the current Ross designed/Winton stewarded links.

Siwanoy #1 1901 (called the Rose or sometime "Fairview CC" course) was a basic 9-holer built in 1897 by local Middleton Rose. This course scrawled along and up and back a hill just to the north of the current Ross course.  While this technically wasn't part of the Siwanoy canon - it is where the first Siwanoy members recreated and organized with a (now-ubiquitous) sobriquet of Fairview CC. The current football field of Tuckahoe High School was a sulky/harness track that this wee course skirted and which was the local attraction that brought the first Siwanoy organizers in contact with the area. I don't have it cold, but I'm fairly certain that the bones of the current Ross course's par 3 3rd hole were the 4th or 5th hole of the Rose course.

Siwanoy #2 (July 4, 1901-1903) (also called the "Glover Estate" or "Corcoran Manor" course[/b]) was situated some 1.6 miles to the SSW of today's course near the intersection of the current Columbus and E. Lincoln Aves. This 9 hole iteration was truly Siwanoy's 1st course and one of its claims to fame was the sensational headlines of the NY Herald Tribune of Sept 2, 1901 detailing the horrific murders of two club servants (a steward and a waiter) discovered in their attic quarters the previous morning. This lease of this property terminated at the end of 1903 with the purchase of the property by J.A. Bailey (of circus fame).  This last note indicates that this iteration could not have been the one that would become Mt. Vernon GC or Bronxville GC.

Siwanoy #3 (1904 - 1914). (called the Hunt Property course). This too was a 9-holer on leased property which was just a bit further north back towards the Rose Course and  straddled the area of the now Cross County Parkway.  By 1913 Siwanoy enjoyed a robust membership and wished to both purchase land and create an 18 hole course on it. This is when Ross was approached to pick between two sites: this Hunt Property Course and the current land (erroneously called the Paudling Manor). Ross definitively picked the latter and that's where Siwanoy has been ever since.

I believe once they moved back to the (almost) first Rose property, this was sold/leased to a new (or splinter) group and was the Mt. Vernon GC course that is being referenced. It makes perfect sense in the date of 1925 stated. Besides straddling the East- West Cross County Parkway, the area is also where the Hutchison River Parkway connects to it. The HRP started construction in 1924, starting further south in Pelham and would have crossed through/near this Hunt Property by December 1927 as that is when the first 2 miles stretch from Pelham was completed.  The Cross County was started in 1929 and this section completed in 1932.

The "Bronxville GC" course being referenced here may well be this Hunt Property/Mt. Vernon GC course (Siwanoy#2) because to my dim memory this is the time that the greater area of the formal Mt. Vernon municipality was divided into the smaller units of hamlets and villages we know today (meaning Bronxville, Fleetwood).  But I'm certain that either course (or iteration of the same course) is not to be confused with the current Siwanoy property/routing.

Siwanoy #4: 1914-today is the beautiful restored Ross we have currently and was the site of the first PGA in October 1916.

cheers

vk

PS: Neil, (you may not even know about this...but) do you or Bill have my brass Siwanoy Indian head? I gave him this and a course-write up for your common review in early autumn 2012, but did not run into Bill all season last year.

[Sven Nilsen]

Here's a Sept. 21, 1922 Scarsdale Inquirer article on the opening of Gedney Farms.  Thanks again to Jim for sourcing these articles.

[Sven Nilsen]

An April 24, 1926 Scarsdale Inquirer piece on Maplemoor.  The article notes the course was expanding from 9 to 18 holes based on Winton's plans, and his design of Mohansic.

[Sven Nilsen]

A Dec. 17, 1926 article from the Scarsdale Inquirer on the Bronxville Golf Association and their plans to build golf courses designed by Winton on five separate properties.

Those properties are noted as follows (perhaps someone more familiar with Westchester can identify these locations):

Old Collins Farm on Purchase Street, Harrison (adjoining Century and Progress Clubs)
Eckardt Farm in North Castle near Chappaqua (overlooking Kensico Reservoir)
Old Griffin Farm near King Street, Greenwich (two miles from Progress and Century Clubs)
Harrison Avenue, Harrison (adjoining Century Club and Collins Estate (opposite estate of Arthur Lehman))
Kensico Road in Valhalla

[Sven Nilsen]

A followup piece from the same paper dated just about a week later (Dec. 24, 1926).

Courses noted:

Mohansic - opened last summer
Maple Moor (the course in White Plains) - additional 9 holes under construction
Saxon Woods - park established with ground for a proposed 18 hole course
Sprain Brook - sites for two other courses have been acquired

[V. Kmetz]

Here's a look at the area of Siwanoy's migration. You're looking (generally) at the area of Mt Vernon (south of Cross County) Bronxville (north of Cross County). The region called Fleetwood is to the extreme left/center of the photo. The Tuckahoe/Eastchester region starts at the extreme top photo

I'll address those Purchase NY clubs in a bit. I'd like to think I know/knew as much about the golf history of that area as anyone.



cheers

vk

[Sven Nilsen]

Here's an August 9, 1916 article on Sunningdale CC, which was in the process of moving from grounds it had inherited from the Siwanoy CC (the Hunt Property as noted by VK above) in Mount Vernon to the old Overlook Golf Course (formerly a private course owned by Thomas Simpson) at Scarsdale.  The article notes the work on the Overlook course in preparation of the move was being done by Seth Raynor and Alex Pirdie (sp. Pirie).  I have seen Raynor's work given a date of 1913, which seems earlier than the timeframe suggested by the article.

The article also notes Quaker Ridge purchasing 120 acres for improvements.

The old Siwanoy/Sunningdale course is described as a nine hole course occupied by Sunningdale for two years and Siwanoy for ten years prior to that.

[Sven Nilsen]

Finally, one more piece of the puzzle from the Aug. 11, 1917 Scarsdale Inquirer.  The article discusses plans to build a "championship" golf course in Bronxville, one that would outrank Apawamis, Baltusrol, Wykagyl, Siwanoy and even Brookline.

The article makes it sound like Carl Anderson was in charge of the golf course plans.  Anderson's only design credit that I know of is Venice G&CC in Florida where he worked with Stiles.

I have no idea if this course was ever built.

[Sven Nilsen]

Jim:

Do you have the source for the information in the first post on Bronxville CC?  Sounds like it was one of the courses built on one of the various parcels bought by the Bronxville Golf Association, with Winburn(e) as President.

Sven