Cape Wickham

[Ash Towe]

Have a look at this everybody:

capewickham.com.au

Good luck to Mike de Vries, Darius Oliver and everybody else involved with the project.

[Mark_F]

Those fairways look to have been graded pretty flat.  Still, I guess that's what happens when you use a Yank designer.   

You would have thought if they wanted a Yank, they would have got Greg Norman.  Darius would have blown his wad so high it would look like a mushroom cloud over the ocean.  Probably not so good for Japanese tourism though.

[Sean Walsh]

Mark,

Is there any need for this troll-like behaviour?  I'm sure you're capable of making any criticism of the course without the snide tone. 

1 looks plenty rumpled
2 looked reasonable flat to begin with but may or may not have too much of the grader.
3 same
4 looks pretty flat
9 hard to tell from the photos but willing to say there's a bit of movement there
10 flat to begin with might have even added a little movement
11 won't be any great expanse of fairway and seems to have been kept pretty natural. Would probably prefer the tee placed where the photo is take from, would bring a low running shot more into play when dealing with the wind
17 Looks fairly flat on the approach
18 plenty of movement there.

I like a rumpled fairway as much, probably more than, the next guy but from the available evidence I can't see that the work is deserving of such vitriol. Last I checked Bill Coore, Ben Crenshaw and Tom Doak were all Americans. Citizens of the United States of America, colloquially known as Yanks.  From their catalogue of work that I am aware of I wouldn't suggest that flattening of fairways has been a major fault.   

Are Mike de Vries' courses often criticised for having overly flat fairways?
What experience do you have of his previous work?
Who was more deserving of the job?
Which Non-american architects would you have preferred the job go to (in the same approximate price range)?

Perhaps we could wait until the course is somewhere near completion before either denigrating or deifying the place. Looks like a nice spot, I'll be interested to see what they make of it.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Wow, that's impressive from the photos. Interesting routing. Sean, Mark knows but won't admit that Aussies = upside-down Americans. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ah here... That looks lovely

[Bill Seitz]

Those fairways look to have been graded pretty flat.  Still, I guess that's what happens when you use a Yank designer.  

Right, because if there's one thing that Mike DeVries is most criticized for, it's his tendency to create flat, boring golf courses.  I can't tell if this is serious or sarcasm, so forgive me if it's the latter, but have you ever played or visited a DeVries course?  Have you ever even seen pictures of his fairways?  

[Bill_McBride]

Magnificent!   It looks a lot like Cabot Cliffs under construction, with a big dose of Victoria Golf Club (Canada also) thrown in because it's right down on the ocean at times.   

I've only played the Kingsley Club of Mike's new work, but "flat" is not an adjective I would use.  Kingsley is one of my favorites of all the courses I've played.   Mike I think grew up playing Crystal Downs, and felt Mackenzian influences at Kingsley and the renovation work Mike did at the Meadow Club.  That's a pretty good pedigree for a modern design in Australia. 

[Niall Hay]

Magnificent!   It looks a lot like Cabot Cliffs under construction, with a big dose of Victoria Golf Club (Canada also) thrown in because it's right down on the ocean at times.   

I've only played the Kingsley Club of Mike's new work, but "flat" is not an adjective I would use.  Kingsley is one of my favorites of all the courses I've played.   Mike I think grew up playing Crystal Downs, and felt Mackenzian influences at Kingsley and the renovation work Mike did at the Meadow Club.  That's a pretty good pedigree for a modern design in Australia. 

Spot on Bill!   Wish Mike and the team all the best. Looks incredible!

[Howard Riefs]

I've only played the Kingsley Club of Mike's new work, but "flat" is not an adjective I would use.  Kingsley is one of my favorites of all the courses I've played.   Mike I think grew up playing Crystal Downs, and felt Mackenzian influences at Kingsley and the renovation work Mike did at the Meadow Club.  That's a pretty good pedigree for a modern design in Australia.  

No argument with that viewpiont.  The site looks superb and already has me thinking of an early 2016 trip to Australia, Tassie, NZ and King Island.

For reference, previous threads on the project:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55942.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,56241.0.html

[Bill_McBride]

P.S., I suspect Mark had his tongue pretty much in cheek, but as always, could be wrong. 

[Thomas Dai]

Wow! Impressive.

Will mutton bird be on the menu?

atb

[Joe Hancock]

Interesting that the website has been cleared for public viewing. I was under the impression it was, while up and running, only for certain people to view for developmental reasons.

As to other comments, it's better left ignored.

Joe

[Andrew Lewis]

Interesting that the website has been cleared for public viewing. I was under the impression it was, while up and running, only for certain people to view for developmental reasons.

As to other comments, it's better left ignored.

Joe

Joe -

The site link is out there...it was published in a push email from the Planet Golf / Darius and also appears on the Planet Golf blog at http://www.planetgolf.com.au/index.php?id=1866.

Cheers, Andrew

[Joe Hancock]

Interesting that the website has been cleared for public viewing. I was under the impression it was, while up and running, only for certain people to view for developmental reasons.

As to other comments, it's better left ignored.

Joe

Joe -

The site link is out there...it was published in a push email from the Planet Golf / Darius and also appears on the Planet Golf blog at http://www.planetgolf.com.au/index.php?id=1866.

Cheers, Andrew

Thanks, Andrew. I might have been wise to look at Darius' blogsite first before posting, but alas.

Joe

[Jud_T]

The quality of Mike's work speaks for itself.  Probably the most interesting up and coming GCA on the planet just behind the Big 3.  Based on his previous work, the pictures of the land and what I've heard from those who've seen it firsthand I'd be shocked if the course isn't an instant must-play for anyone down under or headed that way. 

[Andrew Lewis]

Interesting that the website has been cleared for public viewing. I was under the impression it was, while up and running, only for certain people to view for developmental reasons.

As to other comments, it's better left ignored.

Joe

Joe -

The site link is out there...it was published in a push email from the Planet Golf / Darius and also appears on the Planet Golf blog at http://www.planetgolf.com.au/index.php?id=1866.

Cheers, Andrew

Thanks, Andrew. I might have been wise to look at Darius' blogsite first before posting, but alas.

Joe

Typical Hancock...Ready!  Fire!  Aim! 

Hope we get to play some golf this year, Joe, either in TC or Chicago...

[Mike_DeVries]

Thanks for all the comments.  The website will continue to have updates as Darius continues to add photos of the maturing turf.

Cape Wickham is truly an amazing place on the amazing King Island.  I have never seen a golf site with such diversity in the way it interacts with the ocean.  The coastline is incredibly varied and we have holes on the beach, on cliffs above the water, on the rocks of the shore, and attacking the water from all directions of the compass.  The wind blows from all directions and can blow very hard at times.  We are using fescue turf throughout the course and it will be true links golf.  Only 150 yards to the right of the 15th green, the historic Cape Wickham Lighthouse, built in 1861 and tallest in the southern hemisphere until the 1920's at 157 feet, gives the course a link to the maritime past of the Bass Strait and a visual reminder from throughout the course, particularly at the beginning and end of the round.

The golf course is definitely not flat.  Pictures really can flatten things out and can be deceiving.  The course is very walkable and the green to tee transitions are quite close, with the exception 13G to 14T, where you have the clubhouse facility in the way but we will have the opportunity to grab a beverage and then walk along the dune while looking below to hole 18 and the beach of Victoria Cove while on the way to 14T.

This is truly a unique opportunity and I feel very fortunate to have been given the chance to build one of the world's great courses.

I look forward to everyone's questions and getting there to play it in a year or so.

Best,
Mike

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Thanks for taking the time to post Mike...

The project looks amazing and several of us are already taking about a trip in 2016 or 2017.

Good luck the rest of the way and hope to see you soon.

Best, Chris.

[Jud_T]

Mike,

Thanks for the color.  A very exciting project.  Now if we could just turn U of M from a 7 year plan into 2  .

[RJ_Daley]

What transportation do they see as viable to get the golfers to and from, relatively efficiently?  Will the private plane prop fleet that services BD/LF also make multiple flights a day to King Island.  Is ther bound to be a collaborative "golf trail of Tasmania" arrrangement, or rivalry?  It looks like a prop flight of less than 1 hour from a place like Geelong. 

Mark, when you visit me, we'll go have a look at the flatlands called "Greywalls" that that  flatlander DeVries built in these parts.  ;-)

[Ash Towe]

Mike,
Thanks for your post.  I am sure it would be appreciated if you could follow up with a few more as the project advances.

How much of a factor was the wind in deciding the routing and yardages?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Echoing Ash's questions, Mike, can you share how the routing came together? Curious to hear your thoughts on using the coast vs the interior, on not returning to the clubhouse after 9, and on where the holes along the coast fall in the routing. Thank you for posting.

[Howard Riefs]

.. and on where the holes along the coast fall in the routing. Thank you for posting.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Thanks for posting that, Howard. My question though wasn't where the waterside holes fall but rather why such holes fall in the routing where they do.

[Josh Stevens]

good luck, but I suspect it will struggle.  Barnbougle is at least a short hop from Melbourne, but being a short hop from Adelaide is a bit like being a short hop from Rapid City South Dakota. 

It may not be the middle of nowhere, but you can see it from there.