uphill par threes

« **on:** March 19, 2014, 02:00:23 PM »

A local club has hired a consultant to discuss possible modifications to the course. One of the holes he has criticized is a par three of about 150 yards that plays uphill enough that you only see the top of the flag stick from the tee. In arguing to change the hole the consultant is reported to have commented that modern architects agree that uphill par threes are an abomination. Thoughts?

« **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2014, 02:06:56 PM »

If there are RULES that all modern architects agree with, I hope this isn't one of them.

See, e.g., Sand Hills No. 13.

« **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2014, 02:11:41 PM »

Shinnecock's got a good one..

« **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2014, 02:12:11 PM »

I'd sack him just for making that statement. The 13th at Muirfield is a great par 3, as is the 11th at Alwoodley. I love the 13th and 16th at Balcomie. Guess what they all have in common?

« **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2014, 02:21:54 PM »

It's nice to see a flash of green in an uphill par-3 though... All of the above mentioned holes have that... or at the very least you see the majority of the flagstick, not just the top.

Still - bad argument... and not true...

More convincing argument is to show why his proposed change is better...

« **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2014, 02:36:21 PM »

I hope that guy has effectively eliminated himself from consideration. See Pasatiempo No. 3.

« **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2014, 02:45:05 PM »

Essex CC 11th

TK

« **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2014, 02:57:46 PM »

Keller No. 13.

I'm not sure if it'll be as much uphill as it was, before Rich Mandell's renovation.

Town & Country No. 2

A really good short uphill par-3.

Crowbush Cove No. 17.

Not sure how good a hole it is (played it only once), but it was both "modern" and fun -- and dramatically uphill.

Sutton Bay *NLE* No. 17.

It ate me alive, but I really liked it.

« **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:06:29 PM »

Quote from: Ally Mcintosh on March 19, 2014, 02:21:54 PM

More convincing argument is to show why his proposed change is better...

This.

« **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:10:54 PM »

We used to have three downhill par 3's and one level.
Now we have two uphiilers,one level (not the one from before) and one downhill

all of these were by products of relocating the tees in their most logical positions-near the previous greens

« **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:14:14 PM »

I like the occasional uphill par three, so I disagree with the notion that uphill par threes are an abomination.

But do modern architects think they are? I don't get out as much as some, but seems to me that uphill par threes have become a rarity, even among quality architects. Are any of our quality architects building them with any regularity?

« **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:20:58 PM »

I always liked #8 at Olympic Lake. Two uphill 3s may be too much just as 2-3 downhillers over water 3s are as well. What's behind the green and blind might be a consideration. I am a big fan of all the 3s playing and looking differently. A long Redan with a true run up ramp is among my favorites.

« **Reply #12 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:28:31 PM »

But, you just can't have any uphill par 3. Tom Doak has posted in the past certain guidelines for uphill par 3s. I believe one of them for a hole that you can only see the top of the flag would be to have flanking bunkers that show where the limits of the green would be.

« **Reply #13 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:31:47 PM »

"I always liked #8 at Olympic Lake."

Lou -

Are you aware #8 at Olympic Lake was changed 5-6 years ago? Have you played it since?

Both the green and the tee were moved. The hole was lengthened as well. It now plays 160-190 yards vs. 125-140 yards.

The new hole is much less uphill and you can see most of the green's surface from the tee.

Three of the four par-3's at Olympic Lake used to be blind shots. Now only two are, although those two are not really uphill.

DT

« **Reply #14 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:32:58 PM »

Quote from: GJ Bailey on March 19, 2014, 03:28:31 PM

But, you just can't have any uphill par 3. Tom Doak has posted in the past certain guidelines for uphill par 3s. I believe one of them for a hole that you can only see the top of the flag would be to have flanking bunkers that show where the limits of the green would be.

why?
couldn't you make a note of the limits as you walk off the green and vow to do better next time?

« **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:35:00 PM »

My only objection to uphill/blind par-3's is that someone who is fortunate enough to make a hole-in-one is denied the thrill of seeing the ball go in the hole. ;)l

« **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:43:27 PM »

Quote from: David_Tepper on March 19, 2014, 03:35:00 PM

My only objection to uphill/blind par-3's is that someone who is fortunate enough to make a hole-in-one is denied the thrill of seeing the ball go in the hole. ;)l

The thrill of finding it in the hole more than makes up for that--I promise.

« **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2014, 04:00:08 PM »

#8 at Suwannee Country Club in Live Oak, FL has a good uphill par 3. I would go far as to say that it might be the best one in FL, but that isn't saying much b/c there are not many in FL and I haven't seen them all.

« **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2014, 04:14:28 PM »

"The thrill of finding it in the hole more than makes up for that--I promise."

JMEvensky -

But that only happens after you have spent 5-10 minutes looking in the bunkers and rough all around the green wondering where the ball might have ended up.

DT

« **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2014, 04:20:34 PM »

4 at Shennecossett is one of the best par 3's I've ever seen. 200 yards uphill to a volcano green.

Mark

« **Reply #20 on:** March 19, 2014, 04:30:01 PM »

Quote from: David_Tepper on March 19, 2014, 04:14:28 PM

"The thrill of finding it in the hole more than makes up for that--I promise."

JMEvensky -

But that only happens after you have spent 5-10 minutes looking in the bunkers and rough all around the green wondering where the ball might have ended up.

DT

You gotta be more optimistic.

« **Reply #21 on:** March 19, 2014, 04:39:49 PM »

I don' think anyone can realistically make such a generlaisation.

Crystal Downs #9, Formby #4 come to mind which are great holes.

Sutton Coldfield, 15th, not so I would say.

"Context, context, context; it's all about the context stupid!"

« **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2014, 05:02:23 PM »

Quote from: David_Tepper on March 19, 2014, 04:14:28 PM

"The thrill of finding it in the hole more than makes up for that--I promise."

JMEvensky -

But that only happens after you have spent 5-10 minutes looking in the bunkers and rough all around the green wondering where the ball might have ended up.

DT

You describe exactly what happened to us (not to me, alas) on the dramatically DOWNHILL No. 13 at the original Sutton Bay.

Ball hit straight into the sun.

The hole was the last place we looked. (Duhmoticon omitted.)

« **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2014, 05:05:52 PM »

The third at Merion is a great uphill par-3 (just not from where the USGA put the tees on Sunday).

« **Reply #24 on:** March 19, 2014, 05:08:33 PM »

Some examples, although sometimes uphill par-3's and those with raised greens get co-mingled.

1st at Church Stretton
5th at Ballyliffin Old
7th at Carne
14th at Burnham & Berrow
13th at Muirfield
18th at Brora
4th at Whittington Heath

atb

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