[MClutterbuck]

Joe,

Thanks for your email. No offense taken and no apology needed.

In our case, had we been able to have a core golf course where all 18 holes were tight, we would have. The course was not strectched to fit more homes at all. The reality is that it was impossible to keep the course compact because of the extreme terrain. Gorges, ravines, spring creeks, huge ridges and huge side slopes made it impossible without destroying the mountainside at an astronomical cost. The minimalist approach forced us to spread the front 9. The back 9 is a lot more compact, and we actually minimized the amount of homes on the golf. Our property has many more attractive views than the golf course, so decisions were not driven in the manner you describe.

With respect to competing with other courses, in the area there is only one course, just across the street, with a hotel and residences. We both believe that 2 courses in the area is better than 1 to attract tourism. The only 2 close towns must have less than 50 golfers.

Marcos

[DMoriarty]

Shel,  Thanks for the thoughtful post.  I've considered situations where carts are used to and from the range, and I guess I feel about the same way about them as I do about commutes to the first tee. And I feel similarly about courses where some kid comes out and tries to get me a cart in at my car.  While dedicated walkers will walk despite any of this, some golfers will be influenced and simply go with the (cart) path of least resistance. Obviously though, a ride to a tee doesn't by itself make a course "un-walkable."  I've never said or even implied that, and I am certainly not casting aspersions on Sand Hills, Dismal River, or any particular course.  

As for the ad hominem attacks, I generally agree. But I do think there are issues here other than just insults and personal attacks. What it comes down to for me is that it just isn't productive to try and discuss anything with Chris if he perceives the discussion to at all reflect negatively on Dismal River.  He is too close, too defensive, and much too quick to fly off the handle at any perceived slight to his operation. He isn't discussing, he is promoting and protecting his investment.  

Surely this thread demonstrates this.  I haven't challenged his operation. I haven't criticized his course. I barely mentioned it in passing. Yet Chris is reacting like a cornered animal. Again.  

Chris apparently feels justified in his repeated shots at me because I dared mention Dismal River.  But so what if I mentioned Dismal? So what if I pointed out that Doak seems to have taken a different approach on this issue at Dismal than he had taken at Rock Creek?  Aren't we supposed to frankly discuss golf course architecture?   Is this possible when the owner of the course is patrolling these threads ready to stamp out even the slightest hint of dissent or criticism?

[DMoriarty]

I prefer to walk, though often ride with clients.  In my perspective the ride to the first tee does not make the course un-walkable.  The example in my own golfing experience comes from NGLA. I arrived late for a tee time and instead of not playing the caddie master had our caddies drive our group out to the 12th hole and start from there and play back to that point and drive our carts back in.  The course is certainly walkable, though had we not be given that opportunity to drive out to the 12th hole we likely would not have finished due to other groups on the course.  For me that day the course was walkable no matter what, but the ride out to the 12th tee certainly did not make me want to continue to ride around the course instead of walking.  For my home course here in Columbus, the  pot league will often start with a shotgun and groups drive their carts out to the hole they start on and then drive them in when done.  Those who want to walk, walk, those who don't, do not.  An un-walkable course to me should be focused on the actual course whether too hilly, too extreme weather or bad routing, not the drive to get there.  The course that comes to my mind for pretty much un-walkable is Dinosaur Mountain at Gold Canyon Golf Resort.   Great course, but un-walkable in my opinion. 

Josh Bills, 

I too prefer to walk, but sometimes ride in carts. I agree that a ride to the first tee does not make a course "un-walkable."  I'd have done the same thing at NGLA.

My point really has little to do with what any particular golfer would do in any the situations you describe.  Rather, I think cart rides before the round have a tendency to promote riding over walking, but obviously this doesn't mean that I think everyone who rides to the first tee will stay in the cart.  I am talking about a subtle shift here, not a determinative outcome.

[Chris Johnston]

Yawn.

[Chris Johnston]

Yawn.

[Robert West]

Go play the course at Foxwoods in CT. I am sure there are some people that can walk it, but the elevation changes and green to tee walks make it improbable. That being said, I love it.

Did you ever play the terrible first Foxwoods course in Rhode Island? There must have been 3/4 of a mile between the first green and the second tee. And it was terrible! Just bad golf; the fact that walking up and down the mountains it surrounded would have required a Sherpa and reserve food rations only added to its demise. Thank god they put it out of its misery.

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