[Steve Salmen]

Carmel Mountain Ranch would take a very long time to walk.  For liability reasons I will not give my honest opinion.

[Craig Disher]

To my mind "un-walkable" only means excessive distances between greens and tees.  If you think - which I do - that golf is both a walking game and a game of certain skills, then the difficulty of the playing ground is an integral part of the game. Long walks between green and tee aren't part of golf; a steep climb through the green is. That's why I'm so frequently disappointed with really good courses - Royal New Kent e.g. - which take away part of the essence of the game.

[Sean_A]

To my mind "un-walkable" only means excessive distances between greens and tees.  If you think - which I do - that golf is both a walking game and a game of certain skills, then the difficulty of the playing ground is an integral part of the game. Long walks between green and tee aren't part of golf; a steep climb through the green is. That's why I'm so frequently disappointed with really good courses - Royal New Kent e.g. - which take away part of the essence of the game.

Craig

It is disappointing when one feels a course could have been more walkable for the want of a few changes to the routing.  I ahve long feslt that way about Tobacco Road.

Ciao

[Carl Rogers]

This thread is one of the many reasons, I would like to see more GCA persons tee it up at Ballyhack.  I am curious how it would be received relative to its walkability.

[Craig Disher]

This thread is one of the many reasons, I would like to see more GCA persons tee it up at Ballyhack.  I am curious how it would be received relative to its walkability.

Carl,
A few years ago Ballyhack was one of the Dixie Cup courses. I partnered with Evan Fleisher with both of us walking and carrying. I remember it as a a strenuous walk but not impossible - like RNK. I recall only one awkward area - on the back nine where we had to go around a deep ravine. Otherwise it was a lot of up and down which I didn't mind at all.

[Bill Seitz]

Do you have to walk from the clubhouse from the first tee, and from the 18th back to the clubhouse?  If the answer is yes, Greywalls goes from borderline walkable to practically unwalkable.  I mean, you could do it, but you wouldn't want to. 

[Bill_McBride]

This thread is one of the many reasons, I would like to see more GCA persons tee it up at Ballyhack.  I am curious how it would be received relative to its walkability.

Carl,
A few years ago Ballyhack was one of the Dixie Cup courses. I partnered with Evan Fleisher with both of us walking and carrying. I remember it as a a strenuous walk but not impossible - like RNK. I recall only one awkward area - on the back nine where we had to go around a deep ravine. Otherwise it was a lot of up and down which I didn't mind at all.

Bogey and I pretty much fell apart after watching you two athletes scampering up and down those hills.  Somehow you wore down the cart riders!  

[Stan Dodd]

My home course, Makalei, A Dick Nugent design, has a 950 foot elevation gain from the first tee to the tenth tee. It can be walked but not enjoyably.

[DMoriarty]

I could care less about this that and the other.  Golf is a walking game (and I consider the clubhouse as part of that walk!) so it shouldn't be a secondary consideration in design. The walk has to enhance the game or the course may as well be considered unwalkable.  Once we are moving away from a good walk, for whatever reason, we are now talking in degrees of less than ideal.  Sometimes the course is good enough to overcome the slight, sometimes not,  but in all these instances, a poor walk is less than ideal.  

Ciao

+1

I'd probably go a bit further, though.  I don't know that any course could be good enough to overcome the slight if the land would have lent itself to the creation of an enjoyable walking course.

[Wade Whitehead]

This thread is one of the many reasons, I would like to see more GCA persons tee it up at Ballyhack.  I am curious how it would be received relative to its walkability.

Funny you say that, Carl.  I still have two spots open for The Saul Shootout for The George Cup in October.

WW

[John Kavanaugh]

For the first time in my life this Sunday I walked to church from my house. It was beautiful.  I have seen the light, If I can't walk to a golf course from my house it now officially sucks.

Life is about where you live not how you live. News flash, just cause driving in LA feels like walking...

[Mark Pritchett]

Ballyhack is such a fun course and I always say I have some unfinished business there as I need to play most of those holes again.  Walking or riding is besides the point, just get there and play the course as it is a puzzle that only begins to reveal itself with multiple plays.

[Greg Gilson]

Hamilton Island (its actually on Dent Island) on Australia's Great Barrier Reef. Its basically built on a tiny island that's the tip of an underground mountain jutting out of the water. All the issues highlighted already above - huge transitions from green to tee, mostly uphill to accommodate parachute tee shots. Normally all this would cause me to hate the place. However,

(1)Without the 10+ miles of cart path there would never have been a course

and

(2)It aint half bad

[Joe_Tucholski]

Occasionaly, I see reference to a golf course beeing "un-walkable, " as in the current thread about best riding experiences.  Why would any golf course be "un-walkable?"  Difficult and demanding, sure.  But really and truly un-walkable?  Please enlighten me.

The only unwalkable course I've played is Coeur d'Alene Resort.  Unless you can walk on water you have to take a boat to the island green...also took a boat to the course.

[DMoriarty]

Life is about where you live not how you live. News flash, just cause driving in LA feels like walking...

Life for you seems to be about where you troll.  I wish you'd find somewhere new.

[Sean_A]

I could care less about this that and the other.  Golf is a walking game (and I consider the clubhouse as part of that walk!) so it shouldn't be a secondary consideration in design. The walk has to enhance the game or the course may as well be considered unwalkable.  Once we are moving away from a good walk, for whatever reason, we are now talking in degrees of less than ideal.  Sometimes the course is good enough to overcome the slight, sometimes not,  but in all these instances, a poor walk is less than ideal.  

Ciao

+1

I'd probably go a bit further, though.  I don't know that any course could be good enough to overcome the slight if the land would have lent itself to the creation of an enjoyable walking course.

David

I have played a few. Tobacco Road is what I would consider an unpleasant walk which detracts from the day, but I like the course a lot.  In fact, its only the walk that stops me from calling it great.  Ballybunion Cashen too is another I like because the there are so many cool shots, but its an awful walk - worth playing in a cart though.  I am sure there are many others, its just that I tend to avoid that sort of golf, or more accurately, those sorts of courses aren't on my hit list.

Ciao

[David_Elvins]

Between the 9th green and 12th tee at The Ranch (San Jose) there is 670 yards of golf and 2100 yards of walking between holes.  

And there is a 150ft descent and a 250ft climb in that distance.

Calling it walkable is a technicality.  There is no way that anyone would ever walk the 700+ yards (140ft up hill) from the 17th green to the 18th tee when the walk from the 17th green to the clubhouse is only 450 yards.

EDIT:  The course is 6500 yards long, There is an extra 7000 yards of walking in between holes and to avoid canyons etc on holes.

[Steven Blake]

That is the beauty of routing and how to rout holes to make for a good walk.  I think some architects do this well and others do not even consider it.

Steve Blake

[Lou_Duran]

That is the beauty of routing and how to rout holes to make for a good walk.  I think some architects do this well and others do not even consider it.

With no offense intended, but can you tell me where this (the beauty of a routing is how to route the holes to make for a good walk) is written?  And no fair citing the Yank (who is so far out on the Bell Curve to make him statistically insignificant, though there is probably someone in this DG who would argue that the walk actually begins from the parking lot).  

I agree in part with the second statement.  Some modern day architects manage to provide an interesting course that is walker-friendly.  I am unaware of any architects who give no consideration to the proximity of greens to tees.  Perhaps some are more concerned with the client's objectives for the course which may include having the best 18 holes on a large site, catering to a membership or customer base which prefers riding in overwhelming numbers, other uses of surrounding real estate, etc.  

It would seem to me that with the motorized cart and the very clear preference in many places for playing golf in this manner, routing principles have been liberated in that it is no longer necessary to site a green right next to a tee (or vice versa).  Fewer indifferent connector holes, perhaps better flow, making more sites suitable for golf, and enabling the game to be more accessible to players who lack the physical necessities to walk seem to be more than adequate reasons NOT to look down on some "un-wakable" golf courses.

BTW, I am among one of the relative few who will huff it even when I can take a cart for no additional fee.  But as David Moriarty notes, there are a variety of factors which make courses "un-walkable".  I saw Craig and Evan walk Ballyhack and perhaps they enjoyed the experience.  I played with Craig at RNK when, as I recall, he attempted to walk the course with some help from the cart riders.  We played the course at 6000 yards and it was a long round.

Stone Eagle is my candidate for this thread.  The course was so rugged and hot  that a gentleman in my group retired after the fourth hole.  And he was riding.  Craig or Evan might make it on a cool spring day, but these are admirable if not normal men.    

[Ulrich Mayring]

What about un-rideable courses? I like those

I know just one example of an un-pullable course: at Durness the terrain is so broken in places that you cannot even use a trolley.

Ulrich

[SL_Solow]

If the walk from the clubhouse is relevant, does that render Sand Hills unwalkable?  Alternatively, is Ben's Porch the "clubhouse"?  I am a walking golfer but I can't say i am religous about it.  If the terrain dictates the use of a cart, so be it.  Similarly, if one's physical condition or preferences dictate the use of a cart, I would rather see people playing than missing out.  But I think a lot is missed when one rides rather than walking.  I also have problems when the design is predicated on riding and makes the walk more difficult; e.g. as noted by others, distances from green to tee.  Finally, improper placement of paved cart paths are a pet peeve.  But these issues can be handled intelligently.

[Sean_A]

And no fair citing the Yank (who is so far out on the Bell Curve to make him statistically insignificant, though there is probably someone in this DG who would argue that the walk actually begins from the parking lot). 

Sweet Lou

I can only surmise the above refers to moi    If this is the case, I thiink you are gravely mistaken.  I think if asked, nearly all golfers would say its better to have the house as a true 19th rather than a long walk from the course.  Its common sense even if not for Texans 

Ciao

[Steven Blake]

Lou,

I guess if the course is going to be riding only then it really does not matter, I guess. If the golf course is completely un walkable and its not intended to be riding only then I would think an architect would give some consideration to the routing as it relates to hill climbing. I know of a course that virtually every green is on low ground and the next tee is 30+ feet above the preceding green complex and it encourages walkers. That's certainly ok a few times but every hole?? I would deem that to be poor routing.

Maybe I am completely off base but that is perhaps best left explained to the architects in the forum??

Steve Blake

[Chris Johnston]

Postulating that all courses should be walkable is like postulating that all nutrition must be consumed using a fork.   

Asserting that you should be able to walk from the clubhouse to the course just eliminated Sand Hills and Bandon Dunes...two very special places.

It's a big world.  Beautiful and wonderful things abound.

[Sean_A]

Postulating that all courses should be walkable is like postulating that all nutrition must be consumed using a fork.   

Asserting that you should be able to walk from the clubhouse to the course just eliminated Sand Hills and Bandon Dunes...two very special places.

It's a big world.  Beautiful and wonderful things abound.

Chris

You are missing the point.  Ideally, should the house not be near the 18th green?  Does anybody want the house a long walk from the course?  Does anybody ideally think there should be long walks between holes?  I think compromises are made which creates long walks on courses and to the house.  Sometimes courses are good enough to overcome the compromises; sometimes not. 

Ciao

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