[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I would like to know which'European magazine" voted Doral as top ten in the world

[Tim Leahy]

I am sure Trump is not even human. I want to see his birth certif. I mean really have you ever seen another human with hair that bad? I wish he would have done something much better with one of the best pieces of property on the west coast at Trump LA.

[jeffwarne]

I am sure Trump is not even human. I want to see his birth certif. I mean really have you ever seen another human with hair that bad? I wish he would have done something much better with one of the best pieces of property on the west coast at Trump LA.

Tim,
I would argue his architectural taste is improving, albeit it at just ahead of the pace of most club board golfers.
Knowing that demographic is his target, it's a less risky business to not get too far ahead of the curve.
When he acquired LA, Fazio was the man (hell ANGC and Riviera still think he's the man )

His hire of Hanse seemed a curious choice for Trump and Doral, but was the perfect choice , even if the course at first glance doesn't jump out at you and and obviously say Gil Hanse, but rather a modernized, complimentary, and refined Dick Wilson.
Now if we could get him (and the R&A who has their own Open Doctor problem) off the Hawtree koolaid we could see some better stuff at Doonbeg and/or Aberdeen.
Regardless of how either course eventually  turns out, I'd be surprised if either was a place I personally would want to frequent as a player, as the whole product is just not for me at any price, even if is of the highest quality and service.
But that's mainly because there are so MANY places in Scotland I'd like to be, and my spending habits and (lack of) needs just aren't the target market.

[Niall C]

Really great news about Doonbeg. It's a course that looks like it had so much potential that hasn't been realised - nearly great but leaves you a bit flat. Will it really be possible to turn it into a great course without being able to work with the land from scratch? I am disappointed to hear that Hawtree will get the nod over Hanse, though.

Why ?

[Niall C]

Jeff

Let me ask you the same question I've asked Brian above. Why Hanse over Hawtree ? With respect to both, I think they have done some good solid stuff in the UK without being spectacular. And I mean that in terms of the qualityof the design rather than the site. Admittedly haven't seen a large propotion of Hawtree's work but seen both of Hanse's efforts in Scotland and they are nice but not out of this world.

So what's your thoughts Jeff ?

Niall

[jeffwarne]

Jeff

Let me ask you the same question I've asked Brian above. Why Hanse over Hawtree ? With respect to both, I think they have done some good solid stuff in the UK without being spectacular. And I mean that in terms of the qualityof the design rather than the site. Admittedly haven't seen a large propotion of Hawtree's work but seen both of Hanse's efforts in Scotland and they are nice but not out of this world.

So what's your thoughts Jeff ?

Niall

Niall,
Since you asked, I will give my biased, unqualified opinion, especially since I haven't seen Castle Stuart or Trump Aberdeen
This is an opinion based solely on pictures.

I will say having seen the renovation at Cork golf club, that Hawtree would not be on my short list as an architect.
Those bunkers looked as out of place as any I've ever seen.
I have seen many of Hanse's renovations here in the MET Section, several original designs,as well as  Doral,and he appears to be far more talented and versatile.

Trump Aberdeen appeared to be a spectacular site, but the apparent overshaping, lack of microundulations,overuse of elevated tees, demands of aeriel approaches, and sheer amount of unattractive circular bunkers in my opinion detract from the site, rather than add to it.
Surely some of the natural features and undulations could used to create interest rather than relying on so many circular pot bunkers, all of which demand the same play out.
I'm also not a fan of so many elevated tees, having spent the last 5 years removing many at our place.
Again, merely an uneducated opinion, and the course is no doubt quite good despite all my potentially unfounded criticisms.

Castle Stuart on the other hand, despite its proximity to the water, did not appear to be nearly as good of a property, yet the course seems very attractive, strategic, and playable to me.That said, the eye candy may be fooling me.

So as I say, I am merely disappointed that he's not at least entertaining the idea of Hanse or someone else, as it would seem at least some competition for the job might inspire some great idea that leads to a great product, which the Doonbeg property could produce.

[Marc Huther]

I don't know about am icon of the game. He has a lot of money in a time where golf courses are struggling. So he is getting great courses for better prices. He is smart and does seem to be interested in improving the game. Time will tell all.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I am sure Trump is not even human. I want to see his birth certif. I mean really have you ever seen another human with hair that bad?

Don King

I wish he would have done something much better with one of the best pieces of property on the west coast at Trump LA.

Tim,

Trump had NOTHING to do with the original design of that golf course.
And, a critical portion of it collapsed into the sea.

What would you have him do on that property ?

[Niall C]

Jeff

Much of what you say about Balmedie is similar to what I would say. A lot of the bunking is repetitive in shape and style and indeed in my view the course would be better both aesthetically and strategically if they removed a number of them. I would also mark him down for over use of the dry moat round the sides and back of greens. Given that the course is laid out amongst towering dunes with green sites tucked in between them then perhaps that particular green feature was an attempt to mitigate against water run off from the surrounding dunes. Possibly not given its a pure sand site, you would need to ask a real gca for that.

However if you are making a direct comparison between CS and Balmedie in terms of how they look on TV, CS would win in terms of eye candy. Holes were routed and designed to have skyline greens with nice backdrops etc. Personally that matters not a jot to me and therefore no extra marks awarded to the architect. Indeed I think a lot of that probably came from the client. Likewise at Balmedie, how many of the tees stuck on top of dunes were the idea of the client ? No idea myself but would be interested to know. Certainly most of the views on the course are internal and standing on top of the dunes is about the only way to see the dual carriage way and industrial complex to the west, the city centre tower blocks to the south and the various flotsam of oil tankers, tugs and large container ships out to sea. It's a shame that wind turbines will soon be spoiling that view.

In terms of need for aerial carries, CS probably has just as much as Balmedie. i think thats just modern architecture unfortunately.

Niall

     

[BHoover]

I respect the hell out of the fact that he had a helipad built on the course to accommodate his Trump-copter. Because why wouldn't he?

[cary lichtenstein]

He figured it out, give him credit for not being stubborn. I guess he'd make a great President in his 2nd term.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I respect the hell out of the fact that he had a helipad built on the course to accommodate his Trump-copter. Because why wouldn't he?

Brian,

He built the pad for reasons other than you think.

Hint:

He owns several courses north of Doral

[Keith OHalloran]

So, he built the helipad for his own convenience, and that of his rich members? I think that May be what Brian thought.

[BHoover]

So, he built the helipad for his own convenience, and that of his rich members? I think that May be what Brian thought.

Exactly, I don't have any problem with his building a helipad. If I had his kind of scratch, and if I had a sweet helicopter to buzz around, I'd damn sure have a helipad built at my golf course(s). I don't degrade him for having the means to own a helicopter. Like I said, I'd do the same thing.

[Garland Bayley]

I am sure Trump is not even human. I want to see his birth certif. I mean really have you ever seen another human with hair that bad?

Don King

I wish he would have done something much better with one of the best pieces of property on the west coast at Trump LA.

Tim,

Trump had NOTHING to do with the original design of that golf course.
And, a critical portion of it collapsed into the sea.

What would you have him do on that property ?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I would have him not buy it. AND, I would have him not tell everyone that it is better than Pebble Beach.
One of the funniest things I have seen on the LPGA tour is interviewing the players there and asking them about what a great course it is. It was all, uummmmmmmmmmm, the views are nice.

[Bill McKinley]

Not sure if I wanted to start another Trump thread so I thought I might add to this one with this thought:

How does Donald Trump compare with CB Macdonald? 

I know it may be kind of crazy to make that comparison but think about CB back in his day vs. Trump right now.  CB was very brash and cocky.  He was very rich and didn't want to listen and fall in line with what others were doing at the time.  Sound familiar?

Now I don't want to say that the Donald is going to go down in the books as highly regarded at CB but it's an interesting comparison. 

Thoughts?

[Bill_McBride]

Trump is a committed climate change denier because (he said) it snowed on Trump Tower.

You can't make up this stuff.

[Paul Gray]

We can bounce this around for ever. The only people qualified to assess Trump are qualified psychologists.

Kindly note the lack of emoticon.

[Jud_T]

I have yet to play one of his courses that I really liked.  Of course I've yet to play one of his courses.  If the C&C project goes ahead and they are given free reign, I may be forced to get off the snide.  Clearly he sees more in the game than simply real estate profits.  I'd say he's gone from nowhere to roughly Herb Kohler status.  fyi-  Mike Keiser is still the man.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I am sure Trump is not even human. I want to see his birth certif. I mean really have you ever seen another human with hair that bad?

Don King

I wish he would have done something much better with one of the best pieces of property on the west coast at Trump LA.

Tim,

Trump had NOTHING to do with the original design of that golf course.
And, a critical portion of it collapsed into the sea.

What would you have him do on that property ?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I would have him not buy it.

That's because you're not as smart as he is.
It was the perfect purchase.
It gave him a west coast course that all the members of his east coast courses could play when they were on the West Coast.

AND, I would have him not tell everyone that it is better than Pebble Beach.

Why, do you really think that the bulk of the golfing world knows the difference ?

One of the funniest things I have seen on the LPGA tour is interviewing the players there and asking them about what a great course it is.
It was all, uummmmmmmmmmm, the views are nice.

Have you played it ?

Nice views as in Spanish Bay ?

I'm sure that Trump really cares what you guys think about him and his hair, when he goes to bed at night....... next to Melania.
She is gorgeous.

[Rich Goodale]

I don't see Trump as a successful businessman. He starts many ventures, but most eventually go broke. Sometimes he manages to pull out in time, sometimes not. The money he started with (1970s $400 million) was made by his father. If you consider inflation, then he has actually lost money over his lifetime.

Ulrich

It only took me 2 minutes on Google to ascertain that Fred Trump left $400mm when he died in 1999 to his 5 children, including The Donald.  The D made (and lost, and made...) most of the money he has (or had) mostly on his own.  To say that The D started with $400 million from his father in 1970 is just not true.

Rich

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rich,

Most forget who got the lion's share of the $ 400 million.

That often forgotten non-relative.......... Uncle Sam

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