Two weeks in the south-east US with some of GCA's finest

[Jeff Schley]

Scott wonderful diary of the trip and commendable for putting it together.  Now to put you on the spot  , list the courses you played and the 1-10 Doak scale rating in your view. Interested in your take and perhaps some run together.

[Scott Warren]

Scott wonderful diary of the trip and commendable for putting it together.  Now to put you on the spot  , list the courses you played and the 1-10 Doak scale rating in your view. Interested in your take and perhaps some run together.

Alright, here goes nothing.

I won't cheat and look in the book at what Tom and Ran gave them.

In the order I played:

Old Town: 9
The routing created a fun, interesting walk over some landforms that could have been a slog if approached differently, highlighted by a variety of beautiful and interesting benched, draped and at-grade greens, many interacting with the creek that meanders through the site. The 8th/17th green may be my favourite spot in golf, with the 12th a runner-up.

Tobacco Road: 8
I'm not sure what I'm more in awe of: Mike Strantz's courage to build it or Mark Stewart's courage to let him. Maybe the most beautiful golf course in the world when viewed from green to tee, and loaded with shots I can't wait to try again and which I am very certain I won't find anywhere else. You'll laugh more here than on any other course I know.

Pinehurst #2: 10
Relentlessly exacting and yet immensely fun. Poor shots were punished, but you always had the chance to recover if your skills were up to it. Probably the best collection of hard shots from easy lies that I've ever been confronted with. The contouring around the greens and the different ways the bunkering was used ensured the turtleback greens never became tedious.

Southern Pines: 6
There's so many similarities to my beloved Bonnie Doon here in Sydney, not least of all in the steep terrain and the collection of daring greens, some of which undoubtedly went a bit too far on a site that dramatic.

Midland: 4
$17 for nine holes on a Saturday afternoon gives no indication of just how fun and interesting the next 90 minutes is going to be. The perfect follow-up to a morning 18 on one of the nearby destination courses.

Mid Pines: 7
The greens here were more like what I think would suit Southern Pines, and on a less rowdy piece of land the feeling can tend toward understated, but never uninteresting. Still undecided about the tree on the right of the 4th...

True Blue: 6
The finishing stretch didn't float my boat and the par threes here (14 aside) didn't match the quality of what Strantz built elsewhere. 9 and 10 are the same hole. The par fours held the course together for me.

Caledonia: 7
Caledonia is a textbook 7, but it's got character and soul that plenty of 8s and 9s would be jealous of. I defy you to not get a tingle down your spine playing the closing six holes in the golden hour.

Yeamans Hall: 7
Do the club and its history slightly overwhelm the course itself? The loop from 2-5 doesn't shine as bright in my memory as the rest of the course.

Bulls Bay: 8
The bravery of Tobacco Road meets the restraint of Caledonia and there's a subtlety to the questions the course asks that maybe elevates it above the rest of the Strantzs I played. But the 13th hole is really stupid.

Aiken: 5
Just relentlessly pleasant and very English in what it presents. And where else in golf can you get Taco Bell mid-hole without needing to let the group behind play through?

Palmetto: 8
A large handful of the greens had me convinced I was back down the road at Augusta National.

The Chalkmine: 4
I'm not sure The Doak Scale was designed to apply to pitch & putt courses, but if you spend an afternoon at The Chalkmine you'll be very pleased that you did and probably spend the drive home trying to work out where your home club might be able to squeeze in something like it.

Bobby Jones: 4
The reversible concept is really cool, and on such a flat site it was left to the greens to create the interest, which they absolutely do.

Peachtree: 8
Nothing caught me by surprise on this trip more than the last course I played. How it flies under the radar so well when it is so incredibly good is a mystery.

[jeffwarne]

Scott wonderful diary of the trip and commendable for putting it together.  Now to put you on the spot  , list the courses you played and the 1-10 Doak scale rating in your view. Interested in your take and perhaps some run together.

Alright, here goes nothing.

I won't cheat and look in the book at what Tom and Ran gave them.

In the order I played:

Old Town: 9
The routing created a fun, interesting walk over some landforms that could have been a slog if approached differently, highlighted by a variety of beautiful and interesting benched, draped and at-grade greens, many interacting with the creek that meanders through the site. The 8th/17th green may be my favourite spot in golf, with the 12th a runner-up.

Tobacco Road: 8
I'm not sure what I'm more in awe of: Mike Strantz's courage to build it or Mark Stewart's courage to let him. Maybe the most beautiful golf course in the world when viewed from green to tee, and loaded with shots I can't wait to try again and which I am very certain I won't find anywhere else. You'll laugh more here than on any other course I know.

Pinehurst #2: 10
Relentlessly exacting and yet immensely fun. Poor shots were punished, but you always had the chance to recover if your skills were up to it. Probably the best collection of hard shots from easy lies that I've ever been confronted with. The contouring around the greens and the different ways the bunkering was used ensured the turtleback greens never became tedious.

Southern Pines: 6
There's so many similarities to my beloved Bonnie Doon here in Sydney, not least of all in the steep terrain and the collection of daring greens, some of which undoubtedly went a bit too far on a site that dramatic.

Midland: 4
$17 for nine holes on a Saturday afternoon gives no indication of just how fun and interesting the next 90 minutes is going to be. The perfect follow-up to a morning 18 on one of the nearby destination courses.

Mid Pines: 7
The greens here were more like what I think would suit Southern Pines, and on a less rowdy piece of land the feeling can tend toward understated, but never uninteresting. Still undecided about the tree on the right of the 4th...

True Blue: 6
The finishing stretch didn't float my boat and the par threes here (14 aside) didn't match the quality of what Strantz built elsewhere. 9 and 10 are the same hole. The par fours held the course together for me.

Caledonia: 7
Caledonia is a textbook 7, but it's got character and soul that plenty of 8s and 9s would be jealous of. I defy you to not get a tingle down your spine playing the closing six holes in the golden hour.

Yeamans Hall: 7
Do the club and its history slightly overwhelm the course itself? The loop from 2-5 doesn't shine as bright in my memory as the rest of the course.

Bulls Bay: 8
The bravery of Tobacco Road meets the restraint of Caledonia and there's a subtlety to the questions the course asks that maybe elevates it above the rest of the Strantzs I played. But the 13th hole is really stupid.

Aiken: 5
Just relentlessly pleasant and very English in what it presents. And where else in golf can you get Taco Bell mid-hole without needing to let the group behind play through?

Palmetto: 8
A large handful of the greens had me convinced I was back down the road at Augusta National.

The Chalkmine: 4
I'm not sure The Doak Scale was designed to apply to pitch & putt courses, but if you spend an afternoon at The Chalkmine you'll be very pleased that you did and probably spend the drive home trying to work out where your home club might be able to squeeze in something like it.

Bobby Jones: 4
The reversible concept is really cool, and on such a flat site it was left to the greens to create the interest, which they absolutely do.

Peachtree: 8
Nothing caught me by surprise on this trip more than the last course I played. How it flies under the radar so well when it is so incredibly good is a mystery.

While I have no quibble with the numbers given,I suspect Midlands value price proximity inflates its ability to be that close in score to AGC.
No quibble with the 5 at AGC,as it reminds me of many of the lower profile charming courses Doak has rated at 4-5 in the UK, (leaving me scratching my head as to why rated so low).
Midland on the other hand, while great value for the area, felt a bit to claustrophic for me, mainly due to its charming surrounding neighborhood(both courses share that feel) being a bit TOO much in play.Aiken, while occasional demanding shaping off the tee or into certain pines due towhat actually seem appropriate overhanging limbs, is far roomier before one reaches OB than Midland(though Taco Bell does loom close even if cleverly hidden).
While I would put a Midland-Cradle split at 10-0 Midland, I'd put a AGC-Midland split at probably 8-2, mainly because certain afternoons call for just an extra 9.


It also appears you are now more well travelled in the area(or within 4 hours of) I grew up in and now winter in as I've only played 8 of the 15 you profile.
i also share your love for Caledonia.
I definitely now have to get to Tobacco Road.

[Scott Warren]

Think that’s all pretty fair, and I’d agree with that 10RS between Aiken and Midland.

The descriptions of each category in the middle of the Doak scale make for some gut calls against the number that might seem logical.

For example, Tobacco Road is probably more of a 7 in terms of its place in a pecking order of architectural quality but when the 7 description ends by saying “… if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf”, then I find it impossible to call it a 7.

That probably applies to a few of the 8s I’ve given, and that makes sense when I designed the trip to see courses that I think are going to show me something I can’t see here in Aus or on a trip to the UK.

[Kalen Braley]

Scott,

That's the beauty of TR, it may just be the only course in America where you could set up a table just beyond 18 green and query people as they finish their round.... and likely get just as many DS 2 responses as DS 9.

[Sean_A]

Think that’s all pretty fair, and I’d agree with that 10RS between Aiken and Midland.

The descriptions of each category in the middle of the Doak scale make for some gut calls against the number that might seem logical.

For example, Tobacco Road is probably more of a 7 in terms of its place in a pecking order of architectural quality but when the 7 description ends by saying “… if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf”, then I find it impossible to call it a 7.

That probably applies to a few of the 8s I’ve given, and that makes sense when I designed the trip to see courses that I think are going to show me something I can’t see here in Aus or on a trip to the UK.

Ahhhh, The Road talk. I don't really use the Doak Scale because it's his and only he truly understands the scale. If I did use the scale , I would be stuck between 6 & 7. It's fun as hell, but perhaps a bit over-cooked. My issues are threefold. The walk isn't great and this is highlighted by weird 17-18 transition. Too many strong doglegs. My bigger issue is the preponderance of long-narrow greens. The use is somewhat off-set by the many varieties of the type, but they are of a type. It's easy to see how flat hitters could have a nightmare around The Road.

Thanks for the account and I am pleased you played Palmetto and Old Town. These remain very high on my Happy 100.

[Lou_Duran]

SW,


Congratulations on your tour.  Those life experiences are invaluable and will probably become more meaningful as you age.


Judging from conversations I've had with others, foreign golfers seem to have greater access to American courses and events than us locals.  I even know of a European who sent out feelers to a large number of Americans, some from this site, seeking an invitation to play Augusta National and was successful.  Perhaps you all try harder or have a superior approach.  Or maybe club members appreciate  the greater effort.


I will be making a similar maiden voyage overseas in the beginning of '23 and will send out a few feelers myself.  It should be great fun.


BTW, without consideration to size and scale, does Aiken GC share some characteristics with either of the R. Melbourne courses?  And what are your thoughts on Yarra Yarra GC?  A must play?   

[Scott Warren]

It’s funny you say that, Lou. This was the first trip I’ve done — golf or otherwise — where I was quite conscious during the planning that it’s a place I might only get to go once.

I didn’t get the most out of some amazing experiences in my 20s because I assumed life would bring me back one day. Whether that was courses I squeezed into a 36-hole day rather than savouring or countries I didn’t appreciate would become more difficult to travel to in the future.

I’m only 39, but — and maybe it’s the last two years driving this — I already have this feeling that the future isn’t promised and if things are important to do they’re important to do now. Not sure how my retirement funds are going to handle that mindset 30 years from now but my wife is on the same page so at least we should be broke together!

I am fortunate to have made some good friends (on this site and elsewhere) through the years who when I raised the prospect of this trip were keen to catch up and organise some golf at the places I was hoping to play, or who introduced me to other friends of theirs.

I wouldn’t know if sending cold-call emails asking for access works, though my Australian accent did help me get to play Pinehurst #2 after a booking mixup. I begged in the pro shop until they found a spot on the sheet that I could pay my $398 to occupy.

If anything on my trip felt like the sandbelt it was Pinehurst & Palmetto. The sophistication of the greens and bunkering plus firm turf and rough that was rough ground rather than long grass are all qualities they shared with the best courses in Melbourne. But they are also very different — cousins perhaps rather than siblings.

Yarra Yarra is getting great reviews since the renovation so I am sure you won’t be disappointed if you include it on your trip.

[Charles Lund]

By coincidence, I was in Victoria for three weeks and flew to LAX from Sydney on April 21st.


I've spoken with many Aussies on my trips there about past and future golf trips to the U.S. that include the "best of the best" of Top 100 or Top 100 public courses here.  And I've heard about people who come to Melbourne and play Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath and fly off to King Island or Tasmania or Sydney to round out Top 10 courses.


What Aussies coming here or Americans going there have in common is that both miss the depth and diversity of quality courses in their travel.


What drew me back to Australia for golf was lower cost, accessible public courses on the Mornington Peninsula and the policy of private clubs to welcome overseas guests who provided a letter of introduction from a home club here. I live on the West Coast and lack off accessibility here in the U.S. or barriers like staying at a resort as a condition of play influenced my golf course selection in travel 8n the U.S.


So my trips to the Pinehurst area drew me to Mid-Pines, Pine Needles, and Tobacco Road on my first three trips. South Carolina offered True Blue and Caledonia on my first trip to Myrtle Beach.  I've played at Kiawah and Hilton Head, but much preferred my time at True Blue and Caledonia.  I've done four trips to Pinehurst and only on the last did I play Pinehurst Resort courses (#2, #4, #7, and #8). 


Glad you had a good trip and hope your description encourages other Aussies to consider different golf travel options here, on the Road Less Traveled, so to speak.


Charles Lund

[Scott Warren]

The other thing that your post reminds me, Charles — which guided my itinerary but that I haven’t mentioned yet — is the driveability of the itinerary I did.

Between arriving in the US and flying home to Australia, there were no internal flights and that allowed me to make the most of the available time.

My previous big golf trip in the US was 12 days that included Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, Philly/NJ and California. Two internal flights, lots of big drives, it was incredible but pretty exhausting even though I was 10 years younger when I did it.

Even the drives on this trip were not arduous given how great US highways are: Winston-Salem to Pinehurst 1.5hr, Pinehurst to Pawleys Island 2.5hr, Pawleys Island to Charleston <1.5hr, Charleston to Aiken, 2.5hr, Aiken to Atlanta 2hr.

When you consider how many great public courses there are in NC & SC and the climate, food, people and scenery it may well be the best golf trip in the world, particularly for those from outside the US for whom it has added cultural interest.

[James Bennett]

And what are your thoughts on Yarra Yarra GC?  A must play?

Hi Lou


looking forward to 2023, and hope you make it further east to Adelaide at some stage.


Re Yarra Yarra, the changes over the last 4 years are so significant, but the actual greens, bunkering and turf used is unchanged (apart from having the 'fat' removed).  The improvement in tree management, the integration of the tees into the landscape, allowing the existing/historic greens and bunker complexes to be retained/restored and the retention of poa as a pure greens surface with old greens is just a singular joy.  The work done by the Club with Doak/Slawnik's direction is just fantastic.


Yarra Yarra won't be the best course that you play on a trip down under, but it is likely to be the best poa greens course and the original architecture gems shine once again.  I'd put it at the lower end of a must play list, after the Royal Melbourne courses and Kingston Heath and within that next level of sandbelt course.


James B