Pine Crest(Lumberton, NC)Preservation Photo Thread (All 18 Holes Up)

[Ronald Montesano]

During our mid-February detour from Pinehurst, we followed Jim Kennedy's advice and went to Lumberton to play Pine Crest. PC falls squarely in the "don't let the view from the parking lot or putting green or range deceive you" category.The weekend we were there, hometown hero William McGirt contended for the Riviera Open on the PGA Tour. He didn't win, but it would have been cool if he had.

Anyway, this course may fit freakishly into the annals of GCA, if the local lore is true. Dick Wilson, before he became Trentified, got intel from Donald J. Ross on how to design courses. According to PC, the front nine is Ross-Influenced Wilson and the back nine is pure Ross (possible the last nine holes the Dornochian ever built.) Since Ran lives nearer than I, I'll leave it to him to figure it out. After playing the course, I can attest that it is something special and worth a detour off I-95 (which is about a mile away.)

Problem is, Lumberton and Pine Crest have fallen on hard times. Hopefully, they'll stay open. You need to see the course. You need to play the course. You need to tell your friends to play the course. Smallish greens in some places, run-up option always in play, great chipping areas.



Above: A little info on Pine Crest


Above: Rustic map of the course


Hole #1: 402_380_366_347_332
Dogleg left. Fairway was bumped right to expand driving range. Green is original.



Above: Practice range is left of pine trees on left side of image. A nice, 230 yard drives gets you within hybrid of green at worst.



Above: A view from the forward tees. Early morning means shadows.



Above: Left fairway bunker is about 150 out. Lip not too high for proper recovery, but to where to recover?



Above: 150 yards out, just right of the left fairway bunker.



Above:  Say, is that a false front in the distance?



Above: Left front bunker...not a great place to be.



Above: I can't get enough of the "play to the front and expect to chip" style. What a way to start.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #2: 181_155_140_135_121
If you liked the first hole, you'll love the second. Very similar shot in, with sand front right and fall offs all around. The miss is short-center. Here's the deal with Pine Crest: if you miss in front, you'll have a fall-line chip to save par. If you chase flags and miss side or long, anything goes.

Below: Tee ball.


Below: Tee ball from closer in.


Below: Line where fairway meets green.


Below: Front right bunker.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Ron,
When built, the course was known as the Lumberton Municipal GC. I think it was sometime in the '60s when it became PCCC.

Glad you didn't make a U-turn out of the parking lot, the course is worth playing. 

[Kevin Lynch]

Ron,
When built, the course was known as the Lumberton Municipal GC. I think it was sometime in the '60s when it became PCCC.

Glad you didn't make a U-turn out of the parking lot, the course is worth playing. 

Well, we did have to make a U-turn, but it was solely to get some breakfast at the Waffle House and allow the course to warm up another hour (two of our partners are a little wimpy in 33 degrees). 

But there was no chance of us leaving. We had your recommendation (seconded by Cory Lewis), and zero courses open in Pinehurst that day.  Well worth the hour drive from Pinehurst.  Squeezed in 36 enjoyable holes for the day.

[Kevin Lynch]

Anyway, this course may fit freakishly into the annals of GCA, if the local lore is true. Dick Wilson, before he became Trentified, got intel from Donald J. Ross on how to design courses. According to PC, the front nine is Ross-Influenced Wilson and the back nine is pure Ross (possible the last nine holes the Dornochian ever built.) Since Ran lives nearer than I, I'll leave it to him to figure it out. After playing the course, I can attest that it is something special and worth a detour off I-95 (which is about a mile away.)

Would be very curious to get some of our GCA Historians on the scent for this course's lineage.

I found this on a website (which seemed to have its content from the club):

"It is a beautiful "classic" golf course with an interesting history.  The golf course is an 18 hole course that boasts a style made popular by Donald Ross, the famed architect of the Pinehurst no. 2 course whose layout features small, undulating greens and few water hazards.  The original nine holes were designed by Lumberton resident Henry Lee and opened in 1930.  The remaining nine were designed by Cy Williams, the head PGA professional and superintendent at Pine Crest for 43 years, in consultation with Donald Ross.  With the completion of the final nine holes, Pine Crest Golf Course opened as an 18-hole course in 1951."

Interesting that there is no mention of Wilson in this passage.

[Kevin Lynch]

PC falls squarely in the "don't let the view from the parking lot or putting green or range deceive you" category.

I add you should avoid letting the first 2 greens set your expectation for the day.

#1 is a tiny green, and plays even smaller with the false front.  I was surprised how much danger lurked just to the right.  I pushed my approach slightly and was a yard from the creek (which is ~15 yards from the right fringe).  The only reason I stayed out was the saturated ground.  In the summer, I can imagine many rounds started with a double bogey for a slight mishit.

#2 is similarly small, with a pronounced crown shrinking the effective size.  A lazily-executed chip (like the one I played) runs the very real risk of rolling off and requiring a re-do. 

After the first two holes, I suspected I was in for a long day of up & down attempts (and re-attempts), unless I could dial in my irons to very precise distances.  I felt that 18 holes of tiny surfaces with repelling side-slopes would get a bit one-dimensional.

However, I was pleasantly surprised that the remaining greensites delivered an interesting variety of designs & challenges.

[Ronald Montesano]

That history is the erroneous one, the one that the club has been working to replace with their recently-uncovered sequence of facts. I don't have documents to substantiate this, hence my suggestion that someone closer to the course (cough, cough, Ran) might better serve the GCA in this endeavor.

[Brock Peyer]

Thanks for posting this.  My family were members around 90-92, I played it probably 60-80 times.  Fun little course, the greens were so firm back then, everyone complained that they weren't built to usga spec.  I was still playing Hogan persimmons, butter knifes and balatas.  It had a good bit of charm for what it was.

[Kevin Lynch]

Thanks for posting this.  My family were members around 90-92, I played it probably 60-80 times.  Fun little course, the greens were so firm back then, everyone complained that they weren't built to usga spec.  I was still playing Hogan persimmons, butter knifes and balatas.  It had a good bit of charm for what it was.

Looking forward to your thoughts as Ron progresses through the tour.  I'd assume I missed a few subtleties that you may highlight.  We played it in pretty wet conditions (few days after the big storm), and there were still some scary approaches.  I can only imagine how difficult it would be to hit #1 & #2 under dry conditions. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Quite the busy week here in balmy Buffalo. Nevertheless, I'm back at it with hole #3.

Hole #3: 388_372_354_338_327
Straight as they come. Fairway peaks ever so slightly in the center. Onus is on NOT botching the drive. I love that type of hole. Architect says, just hit it straight. Don't miss wide left or right in the trees. Difficult at times to do when it's all you have to do.

Tee Shot_Distant


Tee Shot_Close


Right fairway edge_Room in rough on either side for approach. Room under trees for recovery shot. As with previous two holes, safe miss is front-middle. From here, you begin to see how the two front bunkers obscure hole locations on lateral wings of green.


Same view_closer to green


Full frontal of the ramp to the green. If you have confidence in your chipping, you are thrilled with this course. That is, as long as you don't get greedy and miss laterally or long.


The next two images show you the spaces hidden behind the pushed-up lips of the front-flanking bunkers. This is the third, consecutive, brilliant (in my mind) or challenging (in Kevin Lynch's mind) green on the course.

[Kevin Lynch]

The next two images show you the spaces hidden behind the pushed-up lips of the front-flanking bunkers. This is the third, consecutive, brilliant (in my mind) or challenging (in Kevin Lynch's mind) green on the course.

I didn't feel the 3rd green was anything like the first two.  The overall sense I had on the first two greens was "repelling"  while the 3rd felt more inviting.  Perhaps it was that the fact that the flanking bunkers on 3 formed a slight kick slope that would push slight misses towards the green surface. 

However, that may just be a false sense of security, since there is still a bit of a falloff to the left that is obscured by by the pushed up bunkers. 

Still, I felt the 3rd green was much more interesting and multidimensional than its predecessors (and more representative of the remaining green complexes).

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #4: 369_336_321_303_290
The play of the hole is dictated by the left-front, greenside bunker. Reminiscent of the Green/Road Bunker on the 17th at St. Andrews' Old Course, the running shot must come in from the right. The green is angled to the direct line of play, running from low right to high left. Aerial plays over the sand, while briefer in length, require greater accuracy. Tee balls to the right of the barber-pole yardage marker in fairway center will open up the approach to all hole locations.

Tee Shot


Play from left edge of fairway


Right side of fairway_Shot in to green


Approaching from center


Sense of how bunker flanks left front/side of green


Better sense of how bunker protects green

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #5: 340_326_307_302_289
You might as well call this one "Fools' Elbow," or something catchy like that. As one of the four longer hitters in the group, I took on the trees from the tee. Funny thing about idiots and potentially-heroic carries: they only see the first line of defense and they miss the reinforcements. I may have carried the first ones, but I landed dead-center in the forest. My recovery was heroic, but the only play off the tee here is 240 yards up the middle (unless you can slide it hard-right on command.)

Fools' Corner, far


Fools' Corner, near


Straight on, farther


Straight on, closer


Left greenside bunker


Right greenside bunker

[Kevin Lynch]

#5 was one of my favorite holes at Pine Crest, largely based on the deceptions throughout the entire hole.

On the tee, you feel compelled to challenge the corner, and swear that you will easily drive through the dogleg unless you do.  As Ron alluded, the decision to shorten the hole is a fool's errand, but it is so hard to accept that, especially when you can see that big area beyond the trees.

There ended up being much more room left than I envisioned, and the smart play is to play conservatively away from the corner.  If you do hug the trees, you are rewarded with a clearer angle on the approach, but given that you will have a wedge in your hands in either case, the reward for "cutting it close" may not be worth the risk of being stymied in the forest.

Once on the fairway, the deceptions continue through the green.  After tilting towards the fairway in the front third, the green falls away from your approach, and it is difficult to convince yourself to hit deep enough to get close to a back pin.  The base of the pin is concealed and will throw off your distance judgment.  Twice we had members of the group hit approaches that went over the crest and they implored the ball to "stop", only to discover they were still 20-30 feet short of the pin.  One assumed his punch out from the right trees had rolled off the back only to find it 3 feet from the hole.  Unfortunately, this classic visual tricks may be rendered moot by modern use of laser.

Around the green, the area was a short game delight, filled with options.  When I missed a green at Pine Crest, I often took everything from 7-iron through Putter out of my bag until I could assess the various plays.  On this particular green, I bladed my approach, but ran an 8-iron into the back slope, leaving a tap-in save.

These types of recovery options were a joy for me, but frustrated one of our thoroughly modern, aerial-only partners ("I only chip with a 54 or 60 degree wedge.")  On our drive home, he chastised Ron & me, saying "you guys were doing goofy stuff, hitting putter from 15 yards off the green, or hitting runners into the banks."  When we reminded him that "we got up & down, right?" he told us, "Maybe, but it's not the RIGHT shot to play.  The right play is to nip a wedge and stop it by the hole." 

[Ronald Montesano]

If memory serves, I may have been "punch-out to three feet" guy, but who knows. I did spend the entire trip honing my nip-it, since it is not in my repertoire of dependable shots. There was absolute ecstasy with every barely-missed green, as a thought-provoking, option-filled recovery doubtless awaited.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #6: 512_491_473_450_376
After the fifth took us to farthest point from the clubhouse on the outward nine, six began the trek homeward. The first five-par is a sweeper from right to left. There is a top-shot pond in front of the tee, but it is decorative and functional only. Lots of space on the tee ball and nearly as much on the second shot. The dominant physical features are the stand of trees up the left side of the tee shot (not a bother, really, since you're not cutting the corner); the fairway bunker that guards the right edge of the lay-up zone, and the huge mound 30 yards short of the left front of the green. Kev waltzed in the shadow of the trees and ended up coming over the mound, but the remaining folks were right and had a clear look at the flag.

BELOW: Tee shot. Lots of room vertically. Kicks off a bit horizontally to the right. As with any good, reachable par five, the more you risk, the more you might lose. There are many safe plays along this hole.



BELOW: Second shot from the dogleg corner. As with the last hole, the sharp dogleg does not restrict the driver of the ball (at least not the majority of us that play beneath 300 yards off the tee) in the slightest.



BELOW: This is a view from the right side of the fairway. The entire green is visible. It is a large putting surface. Lone fairway bunker on the right.



BELOW: The aforementioned mound obscures a clean look at the green for all but NBA centers. A playable shot, albeit handicapped visually.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #7: 196_177_161_158_152
The second par three measures slightly more than the first (hole #2). It plays perpendicular to that hole as well, so no wind knowledge may be re-used. Again, it's an honest hole. Balls that land short find either front bunker, unless they are fortunate enough to alight in the center-fairway portion. Shots deep bound away, toward the trees. Shots over the bunkers drop into recovery hollows. Seven is a delightful hole.

BELOW: Tee ball from true distance.



BELOW: Tee ball from closer in.



BELOW: Close-up of green-front fairway space.



BELOW: Right-front bunker from short of sand.



BELOW: Left-front bunker from short of sand.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #8: 451_429_420_412_409
This is a solid, 4.5-shot hole. If you make 4, you've earned the right to grin. If you make 5, you've earned a smile. Essentially a straight hole, perhaps with a bit of lean here or there. There's a feature about 50 yards short of the green that you don't make out until you're reached your tee ball and you ask, what the heck is that? It looks like a principal's nose, without the nostrils. This stuffed nose is a complex (hate that term) of three mounds, center fairway, that serve to deflect or restrain a shot coming in at 400 yards.

BELOW: Tee shot on the eighth hole.


BELOW: A look from the right fairway edge, toward the green, from 250 out. The stuffed nose begins to grow.


BELOW: A little closer. The front bottom of the green has disappeared and you are curious.


BELOW: From the left side of the fairway, about 120 out, you lose sight of the right front bunker, thanks to the nose.


BELOW: From the right side of the fairway, about 85 yards out, you see what lies between the nose and the false front.


BELOW: Traipsing through the stuffed nose.


BELOW: A look from the right cheek, at the right front of the elevated, protected green

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #9: 399_368_355_342_324
The ninth was the first hole where side of fairway mattered. If you have the stones to hug the right tree line and the skill to hit it there, you'll knock 1-2 clubs off your approach. I pussed out and went left, leaving a goddarn three iron in. Flushed the thing and still ended up short. What a green, what an epiphany, what a sense of "I can't wait to get to the back nine."


BELOW: From the way this tee sets up, you'd think RTJSR stole the runway deck notion from Dick Wilson.



BELOW: A bit closer in and you see the drive-zone depth, along with the benefit of staying right.



BELOW: A nice look in from the 150 yard spot.



BELOW: A view to the green from short left.



BELOW: A view to the green from short right.

[jeffwarne]

Nice work Ron.

I look at this course and I wonder how people can abandon these courses to play the local development courses with houses both sides and mile long cart rides to tees with the requisite 2 par 5's and two par 3's per side

[Ronald Montesano]

We played one of those development courses (or should I say wanna-be, as they don't have the houses yet) at Cutter Creek the day before. I really enjoyed it, although I don't know that I marveled at its construction as much as I did Pine Creek's.

This might be the nexus of my thinking: if you did it/left it with no modern, earth-moving equipment, I'm likely to look at it and say wow, that's impressive. If it was done with the big rigs, I REALLY look at it and say/ask things.

As you know, Jeff, I was impressed with the work being done at your other course. I am in love with the work done at Mid Pines and wish/hope that work might be done with the course across the street from it (Pine Needles, for those not yet there). It wouldn't have to be the same type, just some work.

I'm looking forward to seeing Copetown Woods in Ontario this spring (if we have a spring.)

[Kevin Lynch]

I had so much fun playing #6 that day.  I'm a sucker for "over the rise" tee shots, but even more so when you still get a "feel" of what is beyond.  It doesn't leave you blind, but doesn't reveal itself completely.

The tee shot here fit the theme of many I've seen on these classic Sandhill courses.  This one rewards a draw, beats the hell out of a snap-hook, but doesn't kill the slight push/fade.  There is plenty of room to miss right, but the only way you'll get home in two is if you get the additional kick & roll from a draw.  I saw a number of these at Mid-Pines, but most of those were downhill.

I marvel at the graceful simplicity of holes like these.  There's just a "feel" that connects with me on a deeper level than the pure visuals. 

[Kevin Lynch]

Hole #8: 451_429_420_412_409
This stuffed nose is a complex (hate that term) of three mounds, center fairway, that serve to deflect or restrain a shot coming in at 400 yards.

BELOW: Traipsing through the stuffed nose.

I had a different idea about the "stuffed nose" formation.  While you thought it may deflect or restrain an approach, I saw three separate kick slopes that may propel a ball forward onto the green (especially when looking back at the mounds from the green).

Looking at Google Earth, I measured the mounds at ~20-30 yards short of the green.

If you are just out of your range, you may use these to your advantage and attain the green.  It reminded me of the similar strategy on Merion's 18th, where the downslope 30 yards short may be used to propel a shot onto the green.

While this type of feature seems unnecessary on a 450 yard Par 5 with today's modern equipment, it probably was a much more important feature when designed (and probably is still helpful to shorter modern players).  Of course, this presumes it was an original feature.  Looking at some older aerials on Google Earth, there appears to be a large bunker in this region as of 1993 (but is gone by 1999).  In 1971 (via Historic Aerials), there appeared to be no feature here.  Would be interesting to see the evolution of this hole over the years.

[Kevin Lynch]

Backtracking to #5 and the "Fool's Elbow," it doesn't appear that we can give Wilson or Ross any credit for the tree temptation.

In 1971, this hole was very wide open, with only a small fairway bunker on the right side.  This would have been very close to the property edge, near the right edge of the current tree cluster.  I imagine this original design was a function of the "pre-aerial" game, whereby the only easy run-up angle would have been from the right side of the vast expanse.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #10: 209_190_172_168_139
Another par three with a slightly-elevated green, pinching bunkers and a great slope from back to front. If your ball is above a front-hole location, kiss it gently or greet the false front with your chipping club. Keep in mind that this one plays a full 210 from the back tee, one of the few forced-hybrid approach shots on the course. As always, short-center is an ideal miss. Either side is a short side.
BELOW: Tee ball to green from 2nd marker set. This is 40-50 yards ahead of the 210 yard set.


BELOW: A view from much closer, about 100 yards out.


BELOW: The false front from the right-front bunker edge.


BELOW: Another look at the same angle.