[Ben Sims]

I don't know what to make of this just yet, but I thought it worth posting.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2014/02/27/3070502/los-angeles-developer-has-big.html

[Rob Curtiss]

I think this is great news. They need to do whatever it takes to keep Chambers Bay from going under.
I thought it was a really good course and really fast and firm.
There are a ton of creative shots needed to play well there.

I would assume a hotel being close could only help the course.

[Joel_Stewart]

Adding another RTJ Jr course has zero interest from me.  The fact that he wants to allow carts brings in further down. 

[Jim Nugent]

Would a second course require wholesale terraforming, like the existing course did? 

[Garland Bayley]

Would a second course require wholesale terraforming, like the existing course did? 

Not sure what you mean by wholesale terraforming. The existing course was built using the landforms already in place. So if you mean wholesale making landforms, then you would be mistaken. The did create some faux dunes, but the hills and valleys other than the 10th which evolved from their sand mine were already there.

They started the original course with the goal of creating a course for a major championship from all of the existing interesting terrain. The rest of the property is quite boring. The county originally wanted two courses, and RTJ II convinced them to go all out on one instead of creating two courses each with a boring nine, and an interesting nine.

Personally, I don't think having two RTJ II courses on the property would be as big a draw as having two architects. Is Pete Dye still taking new projects? Given Whistling Straits, I would think he is the most proven choice for the second course.

[Daryl David]

From the article: 

Sonnenblick said his firm is developing its first golf course -- with a 335-room Westin Hotel -- adjacent to Pinehurst Resort in North Carolina, where this year’s U.S. Open will be played in June on Pinehurst No. 2.

Anyone know about that project???

[Jim Nugent]

Garland, Chambers Bay website says that, "Of the golf course features you will encounter at Chambers Bay, about 20% were natural and 80% were created."  It also says they moved around 1.5 million cubic feet of dirt. 

Maybe we're arguing semantics, but it sounds like most of the course was formed as opposed to found. 

If they don't have much of a site left for the second course, how can they produce a first-class layout? 

[Garland Bayley]

Garland, Chambers Bay website says that, "Of the golf course features you will encounter at Chambers Bay, about 20% were natural and 80% were created."  It also says they moved around 1.5 million cubic feet of dirt. 

The site was a sand and gravel mine. The "dirt" movement was soil reclamation. They stripped much of the site of its soil, hauled it to a "cleaner" where the gravel was removed and the sand retained, and then hauled it back.

Maybe we're arguing semantics, but it sounds like most of the course was formed as opposed to found. 

The routing was found on the land before the stripping and sand capping began. The primary thing that changed was they found their "sand mine" for extra sand would make for an interesting golf hole, and therefore, the 10th hole was born.

If they don't have much of a site left for the second course, how can they produce a first-class layout? 

Winged Foot West, and Whistling Straits were not much for sites, and they both came out OK, but on opposite ends of the golfing spectrum.

[Matthew Essig]

Third time's the charm?

[Greg Tallman]

From the article: 

Sonnenblick said his firm is developing its first golf course -- with a 335-room Westin Hotel -- adjacent to Pinehurst Resort in North Carolina, where this year’s U.S. Open will be played in June on Pinehurst No. 2.

Anyone know about that project???

Supposedly Tiger is the guy to do the course

[Matthew Essig]

Considering that the park must stay and the waste treatment plant must have room for expansion, the second golf course would be a tight fit.
Plus, the area south of the park and driving range (right in pic) is very flat. There would probably be a lot of dirt moved.

[Ben Sims]

I think I've got an opinion now.  This is dumb.

If this guy thinks that a golf course wedged in between a park, driving range, golf maintenance facility, and waste water treatment plant that will be on dead flat land is going to garner enough acclaim to justify a nice, amenity driven hotel, he's nuts.  The more I look at the property available, it's shape and it's location relative to the pretty gnarly Chambers creek, the more I think it's a pipe dream designed to position this guy for something else. 

[Tim Leahy]

How about just adding cart paths to Chambers? Admit it was a stupid idea to build a public course with no cart access. It only works for now at Bandon because of the spectacular site.

[William_G]

Garland, Chambers Bay website says that, "Of the golf course features you will encounter at Chambers Bay, about 20% were natural and 80% were created."  It also says they moved around 1.5 million cubic feet of dirt. 

Maybe we're arguing semantics, but it sounds like most of the course was formed as opposed to found.  

+1

the site was an old mine with steep cliffs, the site was filled in essentially at a 40 degree angle with millions of cubic feet of sand from another site (supposedly Canadian)

once you've walked it, you know how it was created

definitely a created site albeit it was a mining site

hopefully Chambers succeeds despite itself

[Garland Bayley]

Garland, Chambers Bay website says that, "Of the golf course features you will encounter at Chambers Bay, about 20% were natural and 80% were created."  It also says they moved around 1.5 million cubic feet of dirt. 

Maybe we're arguing semantics, but it sounds like most of the course was formed as opposed to found.  

+1

the site was an old mine with steep cliffs, the site was filled in essentially at a 40 degree angle with millions of cubic feet of sand from another site (supposedly Canadian)

once you've walked it, you know how it was created

definitely a created site albeit it was a mining site

hopefully Chambers succeeds despite itself

Gray,

Where do you get your information? I get mine from Jay Blasi, one of the architects on the course.

[Jim Nugent]

Jay was the lead architect at CB.  I'm pretty sure he was a member here on GCA.com for awhile.  What's he done since he finished Chambers Bay?

[Mark Saltzman]

Jay was the lead architect at CB.  I'm pretty sure he was a member here on GCA.com for awhile.  What's he done since he finished Chambers Bay?

The Patriot, OK

[Joel_Stewart]

Jay was the lead architect at CB.  I'm pretty sure he was a member here on GCA.com for awhile.  What's he done since he finished Chambers Bay?

Jim, he's been very busy. 

You can read his interview on GCA and understand the construction at Chambers Bay here,

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/jay-blasi/

[Adam Lawrence]

Jay's spent much of the last year working on a major rebuild of the SentryWorld course in Wisconsin.

[David_Tepper]

From the Golf Digest website:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/blogs/local-knowledge/2014/02/a-second-course-for-chambers-bay.htmli

[Forrest Richardson]

Hats off to Pierce County for realizing that the destination needs a hotel/resort. Also, to RTJ II. I commented when it was first announced to be a US Open site that, to me, Chambers was among the biggest stories in golf architecture of the modern age…a reclamation course, in the West (but not California!), modern, and with a living architect … to host a US Open Championship.

As for the cart question: This is such a temporary matter. I find it perplexing that so many focus on this aspect when, at any moment's notice, the policy could be wholly reversed, or some new technology could arrive to make it easier for some to experience the game. Reminds me of turf textures and edging of bunkers…we can change that very quickly, but ahhhh, it strikes such a chord with some that one forgets the more structural qualities of a golf course…routing, site, shaping, the greens, its geometry, etc. Far too often we get caught up in the surface texture, forgetting many of the far more important qualities that lie deeper and are likely never to get changed.

[John Percival]

The course at CB looks amazing and I would love to play it.
That said, some thoughts...
   not knowing the surrounding area, is there a demand for hotel rooms in the area? If so, why hasn't a hotel chain built?
   more importantly, if not, then the course itself will not create enough demand and the hotel is likely to cave
   what is this developer's background
   and, is the county going to serve up a fat deal for him, while digging their own financial hole deeper?
  
   the big question is why the usga felt the urgency to award the open while the development was so young?
  

[Garland Bayley]

...  
   the big question is why the usga felt the urgency to award the open while the development was so young?
  

The USGA has been getting competition for signing up courses for their championship from the PGA. The USGA lost Whistling Straits to the PGA when it opened. The USGA has long wanted a championship in the Pacific northwest, with Pumpkin Ridge on the fast track for hosting the US Open until the new golf ball rendered it obsolete early in its career. There is still talk of holding a major championship on a composite course there.

Furthermore, it is not unprecedented to hold a US Open at a course soon after opening. Hazeltine hosted the US Open 8 years after opening. This is quite close to the amount of time before Chambers Bay holds its US Open.

[John Percival]

Owwwy.
Using Hazeltine's 1970 Open just shows the importance of patience with a new site. That edition was less than stellar, while subsequent events have been well received.
So, if the USGA wants the Pac NW, why not wait a few moreyears and allow the course to settle in?
Sure, Kiawah fared well during the 91 Ryder, but that was a unique tournament.
Hell, look at Erin Hills. They've already done a major reno on what is essentially a new course.
Additionally, there is a major framework behind the scenes that need be developed and that also takes some time.

[Garland Bayley]

Owwwy.
Using Hazeltine's 1970 Open just shows the importance of patience with a new site. That edition was less than stellar, while subsequent events have been well received.
So, if the USGA wants the Pac NW, why not wait a few moreyears and allow the course to settle in?

What does "allow the course to settle in" mean? The USGA has been busy at Chambers Bay degrading it for several years now. Do you want them to have more years to degrade the course?

Sure, Kiawah fared well during the 91 Ryder, but that was a unique tournament.
Hell, look at Erin Hills. They've already done a major reno on what is essentially a new course.

Erin Hills is a very bad example of "reno". The had a clueless owner that did a lot of unwanted (by the USGA) reno. Is that what you want?

Additionally, there is a major framework behind the scenes that need be developed and that also takes some time.

Yes, I recon Pebble Beach is a horrible site for a US Open as they have yet been able to build more hotels, freeways, and parking lots in the area. Probably should put off holding the next Open there until that can be done. 

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