5th Course for Kohler in Wisconsin?

[Howard Riefs]

Call it the Keiser/Sand Valley effect?

Matt Ginella reports that Herb Kohler may have Pete to build a fifth course for the American Club:

"...In Sheboygan, Wisc., Herb Kohler has asked Dye to assess a piece of property that would be used for the fifth course at the American Club, of which the first four are all Dye designs.... “Herb’s been sitting on this property for years,” said Dye. “There would be four holes along Lake Michigan. I wish I could have more along the water. That’s always the case. I wish I could have six.”

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/turf-wars-wisconsin-golf-keiser-kohler-dye/

[Joel_Stewart]

I wonder if this was prompted by Mike Keisers new project?

It a shame Mr. Kohler is stuck in the 1970's and doesn't have the vision to pick someone other than Pete Dye.  The lack of variety (to me) hurts the property.

[Jim Sherma]

I wonder if this was prompted by Mike Keisers new project?

It a shame Mr. Kohler is stuck in the 1970's and doesn't have the vision to pick someone other than Pete Dye.  The lack of variety (to me) hurts the property.

I agree with this sentiment.

Wisconsin has a significant amount of high end destinations for a fairly short season. It will be interesting to see how these fare over a 20-30 year horizon once the newness/hype has faded and all of the infrastructure and rooms need reinvestment.

[Jason Thurman]

All true, but are any of those destination courses/resorts more successful than Kohler? It doesn't seem like it's hurting for cash. I don't know that I see the flaw in Kohler's business plan, even if a few hundred guys hanging out on the Internet would rather see some variety.

[Connor Dougherty]

I wonder if this was prompted by Mike Keisers new project?

It a shame Mr. Kohler is stuck in the 1970's and doesn't have the vision to pick someone other than Pete Dye.  The lack of variety (to me) hurts the property.

While this sentiment may be true, it's hard to argue with the overall product, and the difference between the two courses at Blackwolf and the two at Whistling are different enough to keep me happy. Ultimately, when one can't travel all that much, Kohler will become a central location to learn about Pete's design philosophies.

[Joel_Stewart]

Who on earth would travel to Kohler to learn about "Pete's design philosophies"?   You can learn that at any of his courses.

If I ever return I wouldn't venture over to Blackwolf Run or the River course.  Those courses must be booked by people who could not get tee times at the Irish or Whistling Straits. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Reminds me of the star of Sister Wives who marries a fifth wife because she is younger and thinner than the previous four, not for long. One more fat wife does not a happy marriage make.

[Howard Riefs]

If I ever return I wouldn't venture over to Blackwolf Run or the River course.  Those courses must be booked by people who could not get tee times at the Irish or Whistling Straits. 

Not at all. I'd much rather play the River Course instead of the Irish.

[Jud_T]

Gotta give the guy kudos for loyalty, if nothing else.

[Carl Nichols]

Who on earth would travel to Kohler to learn about "Pete's design philosophies"?   You can learn that at any of his courses.

If I ever return I wouldn't venture over to Blackwolf Run or the River course.  Those courses must be booked by people who could not get tee times at the Irish or Whistling Straits. 

Surely you don't think the Irish is clearly better than Blackwolf/River. 

[Matthew Rose]

I guess I'm curious as to what the fifth course would be like.... is it gonna be more in the Blackwolf mode or the Whistling Straits mode? Having four holes on the lake sounds like some kind of hybrid between the two.

[John McCarthy]

Isn't this kinda interesting, like a Pete Dye museum?  We can watch a good part of his career arc and a final course added after some of the folks he taught have made large contributions to the field.

Having only played the River Course I can't intelligently describe all the courses.  But as an artists career arc, a final, lion in winter course is interesting. 

[David Schofield]

Looks like the only option is south between Rowe Road and Garton Road, what with Lakeshore Road hugging the coast to the north.  Dr. Mohamed Nasr will obviously be cashing a pretty nice check soon.

[Jim Tang]

I hope it gets built and I kind of like the idea all five courses will be Dye.  With Sand Valley in the works, the Kohler complex and Erin Hills, WI has got to be one of the best destinations for golf in the country.  I have always thought WI and MI golf to be somewhat underrated on the national scene.

[Joel_Stewart]

Recent article about the new 5th course at Kohler and comments from Pete Dye.  There will be 4 holes on Lake Michigan.  Surprisingly the site is sandy.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/architect-says-he-will-work-on-fifth-golf-course-for-kohler-b99235748z1-252990331.html

[Tim_Weiman]

If I ever return I wouldn't venture over to Blackwolf Run or the River course.  Those courses must be booked by people who could not get tee times at the Irish or Whistling Straits. 

Not at all. I'd much rather play the River Course instead of the Irish.

Howard,

I completely agree. The River is really nice.

[Frank Giordano]

From my perspective, I wonder why one would object to another Pete Dye course anywhere?  Why would anyone object to Michelangelo's creating another fresco for Pope Sixtus, or Haydn's composing another symphony for Esterhazy?  Masterpieces have always relied on the patronage of art aficionados.  Would one prefer that we golf enthusisasts be denied another Dye course on a promising piece of land?

[Greg Ohlendorf]

First of all, I think Mr. Kohler has been pretty successful in the resort/golf course business. He made a little town of a thousand people or so in rural Wisconsin an international destination. Pete Dye is his guy. He may not be your guy, but the last time I checked, most of us on this site don't have the guts, money or both do do anything quite as grand as he has. If he wants Pete to build him another course, I'm all in. I'm thrilled that someone is going to build another top golf course after the drought of construction we have seen recently. I am also very interested in seeing what Mr. Keiser does at Sand Valley. I personally hope they are both very successful projects.

Greg

[Jud_T]

Frank,

You're right.  Bandon would have been infinitely better if there were 7 courses by DMK instead of the mish mosh of hacks he ended up hiring.

[Tom_Doak]

I actually walked the land for this project 20+ years ago.  Mr. Kohler was considering building a course there and I told the head of his golf division at the time that if they wanted to build a great course, he needed to find the best piece of property he could, instead of one with great land for a half-dozen holes.  And they went and bought the land for Whistling Straits.

If I could do so without stepping on Tim Liddy's toes, I would love to help out with this project in some capacity.

[Joel_Stewart]

I actually walked the land for this project 20+ years ago.  Mr. Kohler was considering building a course there and I told the head of his golf division at the time that if they wanted to build a great course, he needed to find the best piece of property he could, instead of one with great land for a half-dozen holes.  And they went and bought the land for Whistling Straits.

If I could do so without stepping on Tim Liddy's toes, I would love to help out with this project in some capacity.

I'm not sure I'm following.  Are you saying this property is great for a golf course?

[Tom_Doak]

I actually walked the land for this project 20+ years ago.  Mr. Kohler was considering building a course there and I told the head of his golf division at the time that if they wanted to build a great course, he needed to find the best piece of property he could, instead of one with great land for a half-dozen holes.  And they went and bought the land for Whistling Straits.

If I could do so without stepping on Tim Liddy's toes, I would love to help out with this project in some capacity.

I'm not sure I'm following.  Are you saying this property is great for a golf course?

I was saying I'd enjoy collaborating with Mr. Dye.  It's a good piece of property, though not nearly as dramatic as Whistling Straits.  But they've already been there and done that.

[Randy Thompson]

 Pete Dye was the one archtiect that spent sufficient time on site to créate masterpiece designs. He never got sucked into designing for the big bucks and taking on more then he could handle, so he could give the needed attention to each individual project. At 88, how much of this project is going to be Pete and how well will he be able to delegate some of his previous responsibilities and how will it effect the finished project.

[Howard Riefs]

Tom,

How does the property compare to Arcadia Bluffs, which also has only four lakeside holes?

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

How does the property compare to Arcadia Bluffs, which also has only four lakeside holes?

It's not elevated.  The seaside portion is low rolling sand dunes, maybe 20 feet at their highest point [as far as I remember, it's been 20+ years].  The portion further inland does not have much view of the water.