[Patrick_Mucci]

when he's playing a shot to a green, a green with a deep bunker immediately adjacent to it, or a large water hazard right next to it, or OB very close to it ?

Of the 3, I know what I would chose, but, I'm anxious to hear what others would choose, then, I have a question for all of the architects out there.

[Stephen Davis]

For me it is water, OB, sand in that order.

[Andrew Hastie]

OB, of course!

[Keith OHalloran]

OB, water and sand in that order.
The stroke and distance on an OB penalty is tough.

[Bruce Bearer]

Ditto.

Ok, Pat, what's the question?

[Bryan Icenhower]

Water, OB, with sand a very distant third.

[Rees Milikin]

Water, OB, and Bunker (However, Bunker depth plays a large role for me).

[Mark Fedeli]

Are there any examples of greens that have OB immediately adjacent to them, as close and as easy to penetrate as sand or water can be? I'm at a loss but would love to hear of some.

[Will MacEwen]

Water, sand, OB.  I can't recall many approach shots where OB is really in play in the same way a hazard is, and it is less visually striking.  Much more penal, but out of sight, out of mind.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Are there any examples of greens that have OB immediately adjacent to them, as close and as easy to penetrate as sand or water can be? I'm at a loss but would love to hear of some.

Preakness Hills,

# 6, 7 & 9

[Mark Chaplin]

14 & 18 RSG
2 Princes
18 Prestwick, Troon, Lytham, Royal Blackheath, West Hill, TOC, etc, etc

[Chris Roselle]

OB, water (assuming its a lateral hazard) then sand.  I like my chances of getting it up and down from around the green (if balls in the sand or dropped next to a lateral) then replaying from the fairway trying to get up and down.

[Keith Grande]

Are there any examples of greens that have OB immediately adjacent to them, as close and as easy to penetrate as sand or water can be? I'm at a loss but would love to hear of some.

Mark,

Harbor Links in Port Washington, #6, #16

I'm not sure about the Leven Hole at Creek, if there are on stakes on the beach to the left. However there are a few holes on the front with ob along the left side. And a par 3 with ob through the green.

[Mark Fedeli]

Pat, is the creek on #6 at Preakness inside the OB or out? Also, sorry to thread jack. Maybe I'll start a new topic.

Keith, I'm not sure about the Harbor Links examples. I should have clarified, I'm talking more about something where you could realistically putt it off the green and out of bounds, as it can be done at times with sand and water hazards. Where the OB is immediately adjacent to the green, no fairway or rough between. I couldn't think of any.

Mark, do any of those fit that criteria?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, is the creek on #6 at Preakness inside the OB or out? Also, sorry to thread jack. Maybe I'll start a new topic.

The OB stakes are on the far bank, about 10 feet from the green on a 238 yard hole.

Keith, I'm not sure about the Harbor Links examples. I should have clarified, I'm talking more about something where you could realistically putt it off the green and out of bounds, as it can be done at times with sand and water hazards. Where the OB is immediately adjacent to the green, no fairway or rough between. I couldn't think of any.

Mark, do any of those fit that criteria?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Is it safe to say that the visual aspect over powers the intellectual aspect ?

[Joe Hancock]

Is it safe to say that the visual aspect over powers the intellectual aspect ?

I'm not hearing that at all from the people who have responded. Most have cited the penalties/ strokes involved with each defined hazard, and subsequently the order of desire to avoid those hazards. So I would conclude the exact opposite.

If the balance between water and OB seems at odds, it may just be that most golfers have a lot more instances of facing water immediately to the green vs. OB.

Joe

[Matthew Petersen]

Is it safe to say that the visual aspect over powers the intellectual aspect ?

I'm not hearing that at all from the people who have responded. Most have cited the penalties/ strokes involved with each defined hazard, and subsequently the order of desire to avoid those hazards. So I would conclude the exact opposite.

If the balance between water and OB seems at odds, it may just be that most golfers have a lot more instances of facing water immediately to the green vs. OB.

Joe

I think that's right. My first thought was water/sand/OB, but mostly because I couldn't think of any hole where OB was so close to a green that it was very threatening. Then I remembered Talking Stick North, where the greens at #2 and #12 immediately abut OB and it is incredibly intimidating. So, that's rare, but if it is in play, it's very intimidating.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Joe,

Which are you more afraid of at # 18 at Pebble Beach, off the tee, in the fairway and approaching the green.

Unfortunately, the OB at the green is offset a good deal, but, at the tee end, there seems to be parity.

[Bill_McBride]

Are there any examples of greens that have OB immediately adjacent to them, as close and as easy to penetrate as sand or water can be? I'm at a loss but would love to hear of some.

Preakness Hills,

# 6, 7 & 9

The 2nd and 12th greens are dangerously close to the barbed wire fences that mark the OB line at Talking Stick North.  I didn't realize how close until a well struck 9-iron took two bounces on the 12th green from the right fairway and popped out of bounds!

For me it's water, OB, sand, partly because the OB danger seems less obvious.  

***** Posted before seeing Matt Peterson's post above.  Great minds and all that.....

[jvisser]

Is OB, water, sand in my opinion.
When the OB is so close to a green that it is a real danger, the stakes must be visible and
that must have a higher impact than water, although most likely water will in general
be closer to a green than OB would be.

Jan

[Matthew Petersen]

Joe,

Which are you more afraid of at # 18 at Pebble Beach, off the tee, in the fairway and approaching the green.

Unfortunately, the OB at the green is offset a good deal, but, at the tee end, there seems to be parity.

I suppose you mean it's unfortunate that the OB is set away from the green only for purposes of this exercise.

I suppose the OB is in play on the tee shot at #18, but ... certainly not as much as the water is. The water protects the inside of the dogleg and immediately abuts the fairway, to find the OB requires a shot that is at least 25 yards right of the fairway on a hole where the right side of the fairway is not very desirable to begin with. Even on the second shot, where the angle may at times make OB more threatening than the water, I highly doubt anyone is thinking about that more than the sand or water.

This kind of demonstrates why all things are situational. I stated earlier that all things being equal, OB is the most threatening. But all things are never equal; each hole is unique in terms of how close and how threatening each hazard is.

[jeffwarne]

#4 Southampton
OB 6 feet past hugely elevated green
terrifying if hitting out of rough
hit it OB there first time I played hole
haven't hit green since

OB, water, sand

next question

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff, you also have to consider the nature of the approach shot.

In addition, the visual, presented by the OB hedge is quite pronounced.

I'll respond to other questions as soon as I can.

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